Total War: WARHAMMER

Total War: WARHAMMER

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Nick Jun 19, 2017 @ 5:57pm
Fantasy is better than 40k
I need to settle this with a friend and I would like to know some opinons about which is overall better not just the games but lore and things too.
Last edited by Nick; Jun 20, 2017 @ 9:01am
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Showing 16-30 of 44 comments
Born A Beast Jun 21, 2017 @ 12:18am 
I think in terms of the whole world and races warhammer wins but when it comes to the best faction in the lore you know space marines are it.
Born A Beast Jun 21, 2017 @ 3:33am 
Originally posted by Shandor:
Well it comes down to personal Preferences.

What i dont like about 40k is that Space Marine Centric lore.
Alien Armybooks are written from a Human standpoint and 99% of all Novels are about how Imba Space Marines are. And thats sooo boring.
That Space Wolf Novel: 5 Space Wolves are stranded on a Planet that got invaded by a full Dark Eldar Fleet. The 5 Space Wolves kill them all, enter the mothership of the Dark Eldar and destroys it. And one of the Space Wolves almost got wounded!! O.O *moan*

Yeah GW we got it.. the Space Marines are soooooo hardcore! They even need a Space Marine inside a Space Marine because they are so good!

Fantasy isnt based on a single Faction, with all other factions are only cannon foodder for the "main Faction" The Empire isnt more important to the lore then Lizardman, Chaos or Highelves.

The Fantasy factions are Equal to each other. None of them stands out above others.
The 40k factions are only sidefactions so the Space Marines have something to kill.
(im talking about the lore not the results of a Game)

Thats why Fantasy is alot more Interesting in my Opinion.
Epic Stories about Nagash, Teclis, Malekith, Mazamundi aso. The list is long.
40k has almost no Epic stories about non Space marines or corrupted Space Marines.

Thats why i stopped reading 40k Novels. If i read another Book of some Giant Human Mutants killing millions of Aliens without beeing in danger i will get sick.

Its almost like a Superman Comic without Kryptonite and Superman beating the crap out of Lex Luthor who is just a Human without any special powers.

Agree with all of this.
Vacca Jun 21, 2017 @ 3:47am 
I get the feeling most people don't really know much about 40k but the usual stuff like sphess marines vs chaos shennanigans. Really, if you read into the Age of Strife and Horus Heresy lore and don't think that's good lore, I don't know what is. Heck, the Primarch characters alone outshine any fantasy character by a MILE.
both settings are the most horrible places to live in except if you are a greenskin, all the factions (EXCEPT THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TAU) are either angry, hungry, sadistic and likes to commit genocide on a daily bases and that is amazing oh and chaos are in both worlds so this means they are in the same universe you can take that with a greed of salt
Last edited by AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH; Jun 21, 2017 @ 6:20am
and ♥♥♥♥ age of sigmar they are not cannon in my eyes
mrgabest Jun 21, 2017 @ 6:30am 
I love 40,000 and the Old World. The depth of lore they both have, and the care that went into the writing in the older army books/codices, are what make them special.

Age of Sigmar can die unlamented in the gulag for all I care. They'll never get a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dime from me. As soon as home 3d printing gets off the ground, I'll print other people's custom designs for the Old World and paint them to play against other grognards like myself.

8th edition of 40k looks to be pretty good, but the prices they're charging are outright criminal. At least the rules will be better this time 'round. I might buy a few Admech Knights from Forge World just to stomp around and mulch things with reaper chainswords.
Ashardalon Jun 21, 2017 @ 9:13am 
Originally posted by Shandor:
Well it comes down to personal Preferences.

What i dont like about 40k is that Space Marine Centric lore.
Alien Armybooks are written from a Human standpoint and 99% of all Novels are about how Imba Space Marines are. And thats sooo boring.
That Space Wolf Novel: 5 Space Wolves are stranded on a Planet that got invaded by a full Dark Eldar Fleet. The 5 Space Wolves kill them all, enter the mothership of the Dark Eldar and destroys it. And one of the Space Wolves almost got wounded!! O.O *moan*

Yeah GW we got it.. the Space Marines are soooooo hardcore! They even need a Space Marine inside a Space Marine because they are so good!

Fantasy isnt based on a single Faction, with all other factions are only cannon foodder for the "main Faction" The Empire isnt more important to the lore then Lizardman, Chaos or Highelves.

The Fantasy factions are Equal to each other. None of them stands out above others.
The 40k factions are only sidefactions so the Space Marines have something to kill.
(im talking about the lore not the results of a Game)

Thats why Fantasy is alot more Interesting in my Opinion.
Epic Stories about Nagash, Teclis, Malekith, Mazamundi aso. The list is long.
40k has almost no Epic stories about non Space marines or corrupted Space Marines.

Thats why i stopped reading 40k Novels. If i read another Book of some Giant Human Mutants killing millions of Aliens without beeing in danger i will get sick.

Its almost like a Superman Comic without Kryptonite and Superman beating the crap out of Lex Luthor who is just a Human without any special powers.
try storm of iron if you want some chaos winning, its a pretty good book
it does have a very heroic guardsman that even shows up in a second book
or deamon world, another good book about savages on a deamonworld
it does have a marine pulling the strings but its mostly a very angry barbarian beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of slaaneshy cultists
there is also a shortstory about a old dark eldar falling in love
and everything he does to get her attention
it has a really romantic ending
but if forgot the name of the book
and i think there are two books from an ork perspective that are hilarious

just avoid the space marine books and the plot armor is a lot less common
i do admit, the space wolf series is just stupidly stupid
also dont read the ultramarine series, save yourself that frustration
Originally posted by Vacca:
I get the feeling most people don't really know much about 40k but the usual stuff like sphess marines vs chaos shennanigans. Really, if you read into the Age of Strife and Horus Heresy lore and don't think that's good lore, I don't know what is. Heck, the Primarch characters alone outshine any fantasy character by a MILE.

Nah, read all of that on the Warhammer 40K wiki actually and while that bit of lore is particulary good the emperors betrayals such as with the thunder warriors rather soil it for me and keep the 40K universe as far too depressing to apprechiate much or enjoy.
Ashardalon Jun 21, 2017 @ 3:31pm 
the thunderwarriors would have died anyway
seriously, they would have died slowly and painfully from nerve overload anyway
killing them faster was a mersy
shame he failed and they died slow and painfully
...wait a minute... i think i get why you call it depressing
x)

ps there is a subsector called bethesda
its full of bugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ANkjVEpYk
Last edited by Ashardalon; Jun 21, 2017 @ 3:33pm
Shandor Jun 21, 2017 @ 3:48pm 
Originally posted by Ashardalon:
Originally posted by Shandor:
Well it comes down to personal Preferences.

What i dont like about 40k is that Space Marine Centric lore.
Alien Armybooks are written from a Human standpoint and 99% of all Novels are about how Imba Space Marines are. And thats sooo boring.
That Space Wolf Novel: 5 Space Wolves are stranded on a Planet that got invaded by a full Dark Eldar Fleet. The 5 Space Wolves kill them all, enter the mothership of the Dark Eldar and destroys it. And one of the Space Wolves almost got wounded!! O.O *moan*

Yeah GW we got it.. the Space Marines are soooooo hardcore! They even need a Space Marine inside a Space Marine because they are so good!

Fantasy isnt based on a single Faction, with all other factions are only cannon foodder for the "main Faction" The Empire isnt more important to the lore then Lizardman, Chaos or Highelves.

The Fantasy factions are Equal to each other. None of them stands out above others.
The 40k factions are only sidefactions so the Space Marines have something to kill.
(im talking about the lore not the results of a Game)

Thats why Fantasy is alot more Interesting in my Opinion.
Epic Stories about Nagash, Teclis, Malekith, Mazamundi aso. The list is long.
40k has almost no Epic stories about non Space marines or corrupted Space Marines.

Thats why i stopped reading 40k Novels. If i read another Book of some Giant Human Mutants killing millions of Aliens without beeing in danger i will get sick.

Its almost like a Superman Comic without Kryptonite and Superman beating the crap out of Lex Luthor who is just a Human without any special powers.
try storm of iron if you want some chaos winning, its a pretty good book
it does have a very heroic guardsman that even shows up in a second book
or deamon world, another good book about savages on a deamonworld
it does have a marine pulling the strings but its mostly a very angry barbarian beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of slaaneshy cultists
there is also a shortstory about a old dark eldar falling in love
and everything he does to get her attention
it has a really romantic ending
but if forgot the name of the book
and i think there are two books from an ork perspective that are hilarious

just avoid the space marine books and the plot armor is a lot less common
i do admit, the space wolf series is just stupidly stupid
also dont read the ultramarine series, save yourself that frustration

Chaos Winning is just Evil Space Marines Winning. Its the same.
As long its Space Marines this no difference. No Matter if the Racist, Mutated Giants are Killing everything for the Chaos or for the Emperor.. they are Space Marines.

You know more then 10 Novel books out of those 200 Space Marine Books where Eldar, Tau, Orks, Necrons winning? Maybe against Space Marines? Most of the 40k Factions dont even get a Novel. Eldar got some. But i never seen a Tyranid or Necron book as long i was working for GW.

I did read the Horus Herasy Books. Some of them are good some of them are Medicore. But there is lots of "Evil SM" kicking "not so Evil SM" butts.
Thats a Win/Win situation for GW. No matter who wins, its a Space Marine! :) (One side has Chaos in the Name the other doest.)
Ashardalon Jun 21, 2017 @ 4:01pm 
sanctuary 101 is necrons first winning then losing vs sisters, no marines
nids isnt really possible to write from their perspective
i do know a squad of space wolves that gets eaten boarding a sleeping hive ship
chaos winning is usually chaos stabbing eachother in the back as they win, plot armor doesnt tend to protect vs your own side
for example a slave told to clean possesed armor killing a marine, definetly not the marine winning
there are a lot of marine books, but there are also others
too easy writing and lazy writers, but if you dig you can find amazing books
Shandor Jun 21, 2017 @ 4:45pm 
Originally posted by Ashardalon:
sanctuary 101 is necrons first winning then losing vs sisters, no marines
nids isnt really possible to write from their perspective
i do know a squad of space wolves that gets eaten boarding a sleeping hive ship
chaos winning is usually chaos stabbing eachother in the back as they win, plot armor doesnt tend to protect vs your own side
for example a slave told to clean possesed armor killing a marine, definetly not the marine winning
there are a lot of marine books, but there are also others
too easy writing and lazy writers, but if you dig you can find amazing books


Originally posted by Ashardalon:
sanctuary 101 is necrons first winning then losing vs sisters, no marines
nids isnt really possible to write from their perspective
i do know a squad of space wolves that gets eaten boarding a sleeping hive ship
chaos winning is usually chaos stabbing eachother in the back as they win, plot armor doesnt tend to protect vs your own side
for example a slave told to clean possesed armor killing a marine, definetly not the marine winning
there are a lot of marine books, but there are also others
too easy writing and lazy writers, but if you dig you can find amazing books

A Tyranid Book in thier Perspective would be interesting and Possible. I did read much more strange things. :) Gods, Deamons, Ants, Ghosts, a Sword mind, Cats Perspektive is possible so why not Tyranids? Because of the Swarm Intellekt? It would not be easy but possible.

I got the Books for free thats why i got 50-60 40k Books in my shelf. Dont know the exact Number. And i read them if i got nothing more interesting at hand.
Some of them are not bad. But for me the Space Marines are the Evil guys. And its frustrating reading so many books about the Evil guys winning without a scratch unless they fight the other Evil Space Marines.

But its true. Some of the 40k Books are really good. I loved the Nightlord Books. (Soul Hunter, Blood reaver aso)
Thing is.. i like some of the 40k books. But i love almost all Fantasy Books. Even about the Factions i dont like, like Orks.

Thats why i think Fantasy is better then 40k.
The reasons for that:
Space Marine Centric, mono viewpoint, Victory doesnt matter. (Someone lost one planet.. out of 100000000000000 planets.. who cares?) Uninteresting Characters. (I dont care if its the Angry Clone or the Brave Clone or the Defensive Clone. The Primarchs only differ by a single characteristic and a different look, most times)
In WHFB the Factions are Equally important, Battles do matter, You got stories from every view-standpoint. The Characters are so different. Interesting totally different Characters. Nagash isnt an more Angry version of Teclis.. his whole world is different.
Ashardalon Jun 21, 2017 @ 5:25pm 
Originally posted by Shandor:
A Tyranid Book in thier Perspective would be interesting and Possible. I did read much more strange things. :) Gods, Deamons, Ants, Ghosts, a Sword mind, Cats Perspektive is possible so why not Tyranids? Because of the Swarm Intellekt? It would not be easy but possible.
it would humanize them, and so would not represent their perspective making them les tyranidlike
a book in the perspective from a genestealer would work but from the perspective of the hive mind is just not possible
even gods have a personality that you could empathize with, understanding something of their perspective
nids dont, its not even known if they have a personality at all
for example a lictor or hive tyrant, one of the sentient subspecies can get corrupted by chaos, they have a personality
but the hive mind itself is untouchable, chaos has nothing to latch on to
and its better as a mystery
Originally posted by Shandor:
I got the Books for free thats why i got 50-60 40k Books in my shelf. Dont know the exact Number. And i read them if i got nothing more interesting at hand.
Some of them are not bad. But for me the Space Marines are the Evil guys. And its frustrating reading so many books about the Evil guys winning without a scratch unless they fight the other Evil Space Marines.
thats a very simplified way of looking at things
there are quite a few horrible writers so i can understand that few have convinced you of that
all the books with a white cover, literally the space marine books
i dont even consider them 40k books, they are space marine books
have you read lord of blades? book about a night lord finally released out of the warpstorm by eldar
marines have hopes and dreams that can be crushed in 40k just like the dreams of everyone else
again deamon world, about a marine with regret, he is not really in the spotlight in those books but the taught of changing your mind after 10k years, sunk cost fallacy to the extreme and getting over it
some of those books are human psychology to an extreme that would instantly break a regular human, then turned to 12 so it breaks even them
but that does require a decent writer
so not matt ward

and yes on the large scale losing one planet is irrelevant
but for the guy in the dead man walking book that world is everything
and it is lost
meanwhile in fantasy nothing ever happened
a chaos guy finds a world destroiing weapon, will he succeed?
no, not even worth writing because nothing is going to happen
but to each their own, there was a warhammer for everyone
now there is 40k and age of sigmar :(
Shandor Jun 21, 2017 @ 5:35pm 
Originally posted by Ashardalon:
Originally posted by Shandor:
A Tyranid Book in thier Perspective would be interesting and Possible. I did read much more strange things. :) Gods, Deamons, Ants, Ghosts, a Sword mind, Cats Perspektive is possible so why not Tyranids? Because of the Swarm Intellekt? It would not be easy but possible.
it would humanize them, and so would not represent their perspective making them les tyranidlike
a book in the perspective from a genestealer would work but from the perspective of the hive mind is just not possible
even gods have a personality that you could empathize with, understanding something of their perspective
nids dont, its not even known if they have a personality at all
for example a lictor or hive tyrant, one of the sentient subspecies can get corrupted by chaos, they have a personality
but the hive mind itself is untouchable, chaos has nothing to latch on to
and its better as a mystery
Originally posted by Shandor:
I got the Books for free thats why i got 50-60 40k Books in my shelf. Dont know the exact Number. And i read them if i got nothing more interesting at hand.
Some of them are not bad. But for me the Space Marines are the Evil guys. And its frustrating reading so many books about the Evil guys winning without a scratch unless they fight the other Evil Space Marines.
thats a very simplified way of looking at things
there are quite a few horrible writers so i can understand that few have convinced you of that
all the books with a white cover, literally the space marine books
i dont even consider them 40k books, they are space marine books
have you read lord of blades? book about a night lord finally released out of the warpstorm by eldar
marines have hopes and dreams that can be crushed in 40k just like the dreams of everyone else
again deamon world, about a marine with regret, he is not really in the spotlight in those books but the taught of changing your mind after 10k years, sunk cost fallacy to the extreme and getting over it
some of those books are human psychology to an extreme that would instantly break a regular human, then turned to 12 so it breaks even them
but that does require a decent writer
so not matt ward

and yes on the large scale losing one planet is irrelevant
but for the guy in the dead man walking book that world is everything
and it is lost
meanwhile in fantasy nothing ever happened
a chaos guy finds a world destroiing weapon, will he succeed?
no, not even worth writing because nothing is going to happen
but to each their own, there was a warhammer for everyone
now there is 40k and age of sigmar :(

Actually in Fantasy happend alot. 40k is static since the years after the Horus Heresy.
In Fantasy we had the first Chaos invasion and Aenarion, the Mael strom, the killing of millions of people when Nagash returned and killed them all to make them undead.
The Chaos invasion led by Archaon, the summoning of Nagash, Nagash conquering the Tombkings, The Skaven conquere Tilea and Estalia, the rise of the Horned Rat to be the 5th Chaos God, The fall of Altdorf, Malekith turned out to be the real Phoenix king and was betrayed since thousands of years, Ulthuan sinking to the ground of the Ocean, the reunion of Wood, High and Darkelves... aso.

I just wish the events didnt lead to AoS. If there would be no AoS the story would have a Epic end instead of "everything is gone now buy our new stuff. And btw your old stuff is worthless i dont want to you play that old stuff in our Houses" - but thats a different story. :-)
Last edited by Shandor; Jun 21, 2017 @ 5:37pm
Ashardalon Jun 21, 2017 @ 5:50pm 
:/ i remember 10 rl years of the same mortal emperor
i remember a plague of clan pestilence wiping out most of the empire but then next story everything was fine again
i do see nagash mentioned several times and i agree that guy is/was cool
but the end result is just the same as the start even if millions died and where used to kill even more
i remember a story of the high elves slowly loosing the ability to call on the dragons
until one broke tradition... and succeeded even was able to summon more then one so his followers could join him on his quest
they died , the dragins died, the elves where back to being unable to summon dragons
nothing had changed exept 1 slann loosing an eye
there are cool things in the history, maybe i just joined warhammer too late
i should have started reading them 20 years ago
but 40k also has things in the history, the crusade of angron, the sabbath wars, the planets infront of the hive fleets actually being gone, sure there are a lot of them but it wuld be the equivalent of a village in fantasy being permanently lost, kryptmansgambit and the actions of the genestealers that caused, the parasitic zoantope taking a bite out of the eldar deathgod

but there is something we can agree on, i too wish it didnt lead to aos
i would have loved learning about more emperors, more warbosses more high kings
but honestly when looking at he primaris marines and what gw is doing to 40k now it leaves me really worried
so much history cn be lost to fit the new story
im not sure yet but i might end up yealous of fantasy
atleast it was killed instead of the raping 40k might be about to get
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Date Posted: Jun 19, 2017 @ 5:57pm
Posts: 44