Zombie dragon?

[DrakenKin]

I am wondering why the normal lords get zombie dragons, yet the faction leaders (playing Isabelle right now) don't get them?

I mean she get a flying hell stead that looks tiny in comparison to the zombie dragon. Her brother leader / legendary lord doesn't even get a flying mount, hell not even a regular horse mount.

Is there a lore reason for this or what?

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Lore, as well as balance. Vladdy is a tank, and a duelist. He doesn't need a dragon. He could probably 1v1 a vampire lord on a dragon easily. Issabella is more of a caster and buffer focus, so the hellsteed is faster to get her where she needs to be to cast spells as well as avoid dangerous units, like lords on zombie dragons.

Also, the dragons can be easily sniped and taken care of because of their size. Vald is more survivable against large because instead of getting damaged, he may get knocked around, which also means he can't take damage until he gets back up. He also regenerates on his own

So yeah, those LLs are far better and more valuable than any of those lords on dragons, except for maybe mannfred

[Bran Mak Morn]

Lore, is just a word for 'stupid' in this game. Lore, prevents mounted units from dismounting. Even though they aren't on a table top, and virtually, there is nothing to prevent that ability in a TW adaptation. If the guy never had a dragon mount in the before CGI world, likely they wont in the post CGI reality. They sure pleased the dorks who would have hated the game if they hadn't, but now the normal TW fan's kinda do.

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Bran Mak Morn:

Lore, is just a word for 'stupid' in this game. Lore, prevents mounted units from dismounting. Even though they aren't on a table top, and virtually, there is nothing to prevent that ability in a TW adaptation. If the guy never had a dragon mount in the before CGI world, likely they wont in the post CGI reality. They sure pleased the dorks who would have hated the game if they hadn't, but not the normal TW fan's kinda do.

Balancing. Vlad is a tank. On a dragon he would be broken

Issabella is purely a caster and supporter so sacrifices damage that a dragon would give for speed and better abilities as well as a better mix of available magic.

Get off of your historical title elitist horse and actually think these things through. CA also would like to abide to the lore because they are reaching out to warhammer fans, and it helps with the overall feel and immersion of the game

[bbolto]

Mannfred does get a zombie dragon though

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by bbolto:

Mannfred does get a zombie dragon though :reexcited:

Mannfred mechanically translates to simply a stronger version of a regular vampire lord: a hybrid melee caster. Vlad is the tanky duelist, issabella is the swift squishy caster, mannfred is the melee caster hybrid, and the 2 misfits are different versions of support caster hybrids

[DrakenKin]

I see, that makes sens thanks for the answers. :)

[Bran Mak Morn]

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Get off of your historical title elitist horse and actually think these things through. CA also would like to abide to the lore because they are reaching out to warhammer fans, and it helps with the overall feel and immersion of the game

Why are you calling me a "historical title elitist", and is that even a thing? They don't abide "to" the lore, if anything they abide "by" the lore, or better to say, they acquiesce to it, to the utter chagrin of non-tabletop fans.

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Mannfred mechanically translates to simply a stronger version of a regular vampire lord: a hybrid melee caster. Vlad is the tanky duelist, issabella is the swift squishy caster, mannfred is the melee caster hybrid, and the 2 misfits are different versions of support caster hybrids

Tank or spell-slinger, they still suck balls compared to the chaos forces, so who cares about your notion of balance. A dragon would be both fun and useful in the endgame. The lopsided Chaos embalance is also a lore fan handjob, right along with the stupid twirly-bird flying crap.

There are like twenty things they could have left out and the game would be much cooler and way more balanced. Your idea of immersion comes at the cost of enjoyment in my book.

They should have made a DnD TW instead, and left out the retarded Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinc inventions. DnD airships at least use something much less improbable to fly on average and admitedly rely on magic if they are oversized. Difference in the two universes is for every major titanic power there is an equal that can contest it.

I fought as Bretonia, allied with both the dwarves and empire and watched our combined full stacks loose to one Chaos army.

I uninstalled right after that, because it was rediculious. I had managed well and won every fight to that point. It was on a high setting but still, it was way too Satanist wetdream for any degree of fairness or fun.

If you like hopless death and a world of queerish dudes spewing Nurgle farts beside psychotic women who wear too much clothing weilding tons of gore and hellfire this is the game for you.

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Bran Mak Morn:

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Get off of your historical title elitist horse and actually think these things through. CA also would like to abide to the lore because they are reaching out to warhammer fans, and it helps with the overall feel and immersion of the game

Why are you calling me a "historical title elitist", and is that even a thing? They don't abide "to" the lore, if anything they abide "by" the lore, or better to say, they acquiesce to it, to the utter chagrin of non-tabletop fans.

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Mannfred mechanically translates to simply a stronger version of a regular vampire lord: a hybrid melee caster. Vlad is the tanky duelist, issabella is the swift squishy caster, mannfred is the melee caster hybrid, and the 2 misfits are different versions of support caster hybrids

Tank or spell-slinger, they still suck balls compared to the chaos forces, so who cares about your notion of balance. A dragon would be both fun and useful in the endgame. The lopsided Chaos embalance is also a lore fan handjob, right along with the stupid twirly-bird flying crap.

There are like twenty things they could have left out and the game would be much cooler and way more balanced. Your idea of immersion comes at the cost of enjoyment in my book.

They should have made a DnD TW instead, and left out the retarded Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinc inventions. DnD airships at least use something much less improbable to fly on average and admitedly rely on magic if they are oversized. Difference in the two universes is for every major titanic power there is and equal that can contest it.

I fought as Bretonia, allied with both the dwarves and empire and watched our combined full stacks loose to one Chaos army.

I uninstalled right after that, because it was rediculious. I had managed well and won every fight to that point. It was on a high setting but still, it was way too Satanist wetdream for any degree of fairness or fun.

If you like hopless death and a world of queerish dudes spewing Nurgle farts beside psychotic women who wear too much clothing weilding tons of gore and hellfire this is the game for you.

If you think that chaos is actually a threat in this game, then you should probably learn how to counter them. They aren't overpowered, heck if anything they are underpowered, you just need to find the right tools against them. It's not the lore's fault if you can't kill a chaos stack with an elite britonnian stack.

Also, the chaos invasion is a mere shadow compared to the lore. I am a historical player, and don't care about how closely the lore is followed, but damn, if they are going to go for a lategame challenge I expect an actual CHALLENGE. I want to lose settlements, I want it to seem like an elite doom squad of stacks, it'd make my inevitable victory even more satisfying. What Chaos needs right now is more doomstacks, but a definitive way to bring down chaos, no lingering bs. Right now the chaos invasion is a mere annoyance, not even a challenge

So yeah, learn how to defeat chaos and you'll learn just how underpowered they really are, and how much of a joke the late game is. This isn't about lore, this is about an end-game challenge that CA tried to implement, but held back.

[Cast]

I have to agree, I can just spawn level 1 lords and fill them with armor piercing( handgunners, halberds, great cannon, thunder, dwarf cannons and dwarf warriors) and keep running them into chaos stacks. Not mentioning the shield of civilization so you are all good friends with each other to handle the norscans.

As for Bretonnians, I just got the king and gave him a bunch of charge bonus on army and all cav.

And you can just stomp on all of them with the lightning strike ability on the blue line to shut down reinforcements

[Elitewrecker PT]

Originally posted by Bran Mak Morn:

I fought as Bretonia, allied with both the dwarves and empire and watched our combined full stacks loose to one Chaos army.

I uninstalled right after that, because it was rediculious. I had managed well and won every fight to that point. It was on a high setting but still, it was way too Satanist wetdream for any degree of fairness or fun.

If you like hopless death and a world of queerish dudes spewing Nurgle farts beside psychotic women who wear too much clothing weilding tons of gore and hellfire this is the game for you.

That Empire stack must have been 19 swordsmen and the Dwarfs must have been 19 miners.

[Cast]

Empire halberds and handgunners do wonders, Add a couple of crossbowmen for Marauders and other light armored units

[Bran Mak Morn]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Originally posted by Bran Mak Morn:

I fought as Bretonia, allied with both the dwarves and empire and watched our combined full stacks loose to one Chaos army.

I uninstalled right after that, because it was rediculious. I had managed well and won every fight to that point. It was on a high setting but still, it was way too Satanist wetdream for any degree of fairness or fun.

If you like hopless death and a world of queerish dudes spewing Nurgle farts beside psychotic women who wear too much clothing weilding tons of gore and hellfire this is the game for you.

That Empire stack must have been 19 swordsmen and the Dwarfs must have been 19 miners.

No the dwarves had legendary units, I had mostly cavalry, and the empire used gunners and pike infantry.

Literally, one unit of chaos warriors held the empires entire infantry line for 15min of battle time and they murdered the dwarves while I was still marching in to aid them.

When I got there, the gunners retreated to my lines, but kept breaking and running because of moral failure.

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

If you think that chaos is actually a threat in this game, then you should probably learn how to counter them. They aren't overpowered, heck if anything they are underpowered, you just need to find the right tools against them. It's not the lore's fault if you can't kill a chaos stack with an elite britonnian stack.

Also, the chaos invasion is a mere shadow compared to the lore. I am a historical player, and don't care about how closely the lore is followed, but damn, if they are going to go for a lategame challenge I expect an actual CHALLENGE. I want to lose settlements, I want it to seem like an elite doom squad of stacks, it'd make my inevitable victory even more satisfying. What Chaos needs right now is more doomstacks, but a definitive way to bring down chaos, no lingering bs. Right now the chaos invasion is a mere annoyance, not even a challenge

So yeah, learn how to defeat chaos and you'll learn just how underpowered they really are, and how much of a joke the late game is. This isn't about lore, this is about an end-game challenge that CA tried to implement, but held back.

You must play on normal or easy modes. Because the reason I was allied to the dwarves and empire at all is because Chaos had destroyed the entire map except my area as Bretonia.

You are simply chalking it up to, I suck, and the truth is, I am an old hand at TW games in general, and the tactics used were fine, the unit choices were moderate but adiquate in the pre-battle, but the inability to inflict damage and losses was the factor in that loss.

I was the only army who turned the first full stack and then they sent the HARD doom stack.

No orcs, no eastern vaps or dwarves, just the dwarves in the mountains near me, and the last of the empires forces.

It was a total rout of every kingdom around me and they came waaay too soon, the age passes too fast and I was barely ready for them, even though I had raided/slaughtered Norsca for extra gold the whole time. I killed them, let them rebiuld, killed them again, and let them come back to get a cheat on finances and still I got rimmed by the doom stack.

I honestly don't believe you are as good at this game as you claim to be. I resent you saying I need to learn anything and then I'll discover something that you think should be true about a game you obviously pretent to excell at.

Nor you, Cast, you are likely not playing it on even the "Hard" setting, and sounds like you are talking about custom battles that you build for advantage and not the intangables of the fluid campaign.

You two are just not playing the same difficulty as I did. Case closed.

Have fun refutting this reply to no one, I'm done talking about it, and you are wasting your time if you answer back.

[Cast]

Playing on legendary, if empire had stacks of halberds and gunners, it would take more than one chaos warrior to hold them, not to mention AI usually blob so that chaos warrior unit would get attacked in rear penalty.

And you can always charge at them from behind if you had knights
Got a replay of it?

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Bran Mak Morn:

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

That Empire stack must have been 19 swordsmen and the Dwarfs must have been 19 miners.

No the dwarves had legendary units, I had mostly cavalry, and the empire used gunners and pike infantry.

Literally, one unit of chaos warriors held the empires entire infantry line for 15min of battle time and they murdered the dwarves while I was still marching in to aid them.

When I got there, the gunners retreated to my lines, but kept breaking and running because of moral failure.

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

If you think that chaos is actually a threat in this game, then you should probably learn how to counter them. They aren't overpowered, heck if anything they are underpowered, you just need to find the right tools against them. It's not the lore's fault if you can't kill a chaos stack with an elite britonnian stack.

Also, the chaos invasion is a mere shadow compared to the lore. I am a historical player, and don't care about how closely the lore is followed, but damn, if they are going to go for a lategame challenge I expect an actual CHALLENGE. I want to lose settlements, I want it to seem like an elite doom squad of stacks, it'd make my inevitable victory even more satisfying. What Chaos needs right now is more doomstacks, but a definitive way to bring down chaos, no lingering bs. Right now the chaos invasion is a mere annoyance, not even a challenge

So yeah, learn how to defeat chaos and you'll learn just how underpowered they really are, and how much of a joke the late game is. This isn't about lore, this is about an end-game challenge that CA tried to implement, but held back.

You must play on normal or easy modes. Because the reason I was allied to the dwarves and empire at all is because Chaos had destroyed the entire map except my area as Bretonia.

You are simply chalking it up to, I suck, and the truth is, I am an old hand at TW games in general, and the tactics used were fine, the unit choices were moderate but adiquate in the pre-battle, but the inability to inflict damage and losses was the factor in that loss.

I was the only army who turned the first full stack and then they sent the HARD doom stack.

No orcs, no eastern vaps or dwarves, just the dwarves in the mountains near me, and the last of the empires forces.

It was a total rout of every kingdom around me and they came waaay too soon, the age passes too fast and I was barely ready for them, even though I had raided/slaughtered Norsca for extra gold the whole time. I killed them, let them rebiuld, killed them again, and let them come back to get a cheat on finances and still I got rimmed by the doom stack.

I honestly don't believe you are as good at this game as you claim to be. I resent you saying I need to learn anything and then I'll discover something that you think should be true about a game you obviously pretent to excell at.

Nor you, Cast, you are likely not playing it on even the "Hard" setting, and sounds like you are talking about custom battles that you build for advantage and not the intangables of the fluid campaign.

You two are just not playing the same difficulty as I did. Case closed.

Have fun refutting this reply to no one, I'm done talking about it, and you are wasting your time if you answer back.

Hah All I'm gonna say is that I'm not the noob here. I play very hard for fun and legendary for a bit of a challenge. 'Oh, you were able to do something I couldn't? You must be on a lower difficulty'

Nope, you just need to git gud. That's what the entire statement above was about. Chaos is an annoyance and a nuisance at worst, and should be easily killable especially with a high tier cav stack from bretonnia. Chaos is not a threat, and like I said, needs a serious buff to actually feel like the challenge it is supposed to be. You rage quit after losing one battle? Then you're not in it for a fun challenge, you are simply playing the game for the visuals at that point. Get good, look at some guides (because there are plenty. Never read any myself because I hate people telling others how to do something they can learn to do better, but for you I'll make an exception and recommend them) and learn how to defeat your enemy.

If you lose an army? So what? It is damn near impossible for a single doom stack of chaos to take a heavily defended city with a high tier army garrisoned inside, so even if your territory is pushed back to your capital, as long as you get that situation and get that first victory on the stack, that stack can be killed the next turn. 2 doom stacks on a heavily defended city is a bit harder, but even if battles are unwinnable, always play them out and try to do as much damage as possible. If you can bring a doomstack down to half strength, then someone of your skill level should easily be able to deal with the rest on the open field.