Playing Elves, avoiding forest battles like plague

[FireStorm20]

I have been playing a bit of the new Wood Elves expansion, and its a mixed experience. The new stuff alone is pretty good, the Wood Elves different and interesting. Where it breaks is the old systems coupled with Wood Elves characteristics.

Fighting in forests have alwys been for me a pain , because yur eyes hurt trying to find out whats happening, and no , space+ "hide foliage" doesnt help a lot. Also ranged weapons were near usless, hitting the trees, units getting "obstructed " and hardly doing nothing. However, i could live with that playing othr factions.

However with wood elves its upposed to be your specialization, your preffered by far battlefield.
And archers are supposed to be your backbone. Well in forests they suck. They do maybe 25 % of normal dmg, so the melee units have no problem to close, and you use ammunition like crazy before dong any significant dmg. And you must check all the time all your units for "obstructed".
All in all im pretty sure a Vampire Counts army, as they have melee units only, would have a big advantage in forest over a standard Elven one

So me, playing as Elves, i try to avoid combat in forest like plague. Which is just so wrong.

[gachi is manly]

I sort of agree.

Wood Elf archers hit trees like crazy and don't have much ammo. Bad combination. Only time that they'll do alright in a forest is if they're kiting a unit through it up close.

The tree thing drives me nuts also. Hiding foilage is nice, but the trees are so dense that it doesn't help much. Then ontop of that my Treekin/Dryads blend into forests extremely well. It hate it... I wish there was an option to make the trees translucent or something.

[FireStorm20]

Originally posted by Lyle Ugleman:

I
Wood Elf archers hit trees like crazy and don't have much ammo. Bad combination. Only time that they'll do alright in a forest is if they're kiting a unit through it up close.

Exactly. And kiting up close melee units seems like a very risky business.

[StarofTanuki]

I hate forest battle too cuz 10 fps

[Captain Worthy]

In the TT you sure could get cover modifiers from forests when playing against Wood Elves, their archers had the advantage when they were deployed at the edge of forests and the enemy was out in the open.

In the last WE book for Warhammer Fantasy, they did gain an extra rank from which they shot while within woods, and for melee too. But the main point about them being a forest army was their ease of movement through the woods, it's this attribute more than anything else that ought to be represented in the Total War game in order to make the army feel like a Wood Elven one of the Warhammer world.

I haven't played the TW game for a while now but I hope that there are at least SOME bonuses or advantages the WE army gains from forests.

[Sagranda]

They gain an accuracy and I think a damage boost (can't look it up right now) in the woods.

[ArchaicReaper]

Elven units gain a Speed boost to 110% and an Accuracy boost to 150% while in forests. They still shoot trees because that's how physics work, if they shoot an arrow at someone and a tree is in the way they'll hit the tree. However, put them on the edge of a forest to target an enemy in the open and they hit much more often. And when the enemy tries to chase you you escape more easily due to your speed boost in the woods and their speed penalty. However, the Beastmen kinda overcome this aspect but due to low armor are more vulnerable to archers so it's a fair trade off.

[Shandor]

Just dont fight in the woods. Its not THAT much of an advantage you get in the woods.
ANd i think a Ranged unit inside the woods on the edge shooting a unit outside the woods work really good.

CA the replay about that. Even that Woodelf Arrows are magical they still bound on the physicalic laws and cant go though massive buildings like Trees. But you do 20% more damage then a Human Archer in the same wood :)

[Shandor]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

In the TT you sure could get cover modifiers from forests when playing against Wood Elves, their archers had the advantage when they were deployed at the edge of forests and the enemy was out in the open.

wow thats long ago, 7th Edition. In the 8 Edition they could stay in the middle of a forrest and didnt get an disadvantage.
And with the "Tomk King Arrows" they got they could ignore everything, cover, Woods, other units, Storms, Warpstorms... Like Tomb King archers just better.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

I agree that archers in the woods are a bit of a pain but I should point out that even in TT the archers aren't the backbone of the WE army. They're good, but not the entire factions specialization.

Also since large units (aside from beastmen and WE ones) get a large disadvantage in the woods the vampires are still worse off in the woods unless you bring all small troops.

[Captain Worthy]

Originally posted by Shandor:

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

In the TT you sure could get cover modifiers from forests when playing against Wood Elves, their archers had the advantage when they were deployed at the edge of forests and the enemy was out in the open.

wow thats long ago, 7th Edition. In the 8 Edition they could stay in the middle of a forrest and didnt get an disadvantage.
And with the "Tomk King Arrows" they got they could ignore everything, cover, Woods, other units, Storms, Warpstorms... Like Tomb King archers just better.

Even in 8th if the enemy unit was in a forest, they got cover bonus against WE. So it's good to see that WE don't just treat all forests as clear terrain and magically shoot through trees.

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

Elven units gain a Speed boost to 110% and an Accuracy boost to 150% while in forests. They still shoot trees because that's how physics work, if they shoot an arrow at someone and a tree is in the way they'll hit the tree. However, put them on the edge of a forest to target an enemy in the open and they hit much more often. And when the enemy tries to chase you you escape more easily due to your speed boost in the woods and their speed penalty. However, the Beastmen kinda overcome this aspect but due to low armor are more vulnerable to archers so it's a fair trade off.

This sounds great to me!

[FireStorm20]

Originally posted by Shandor:

Just dont fight in the woods. Its not THAT much of an advantage you get in the woods.
ANd i think a Ranged unit inside the woods on the edge shooting a unit outside the woods work really good.

CA the replay about that. Even that Woodelf Arrows are magical they still bound on the physicalic laws and cant go though massive buildings like Trees. But you do 20% more damage then a Human Archer in the same wood :)

The problem being inside the wood elves main provicnes , whole battle maps are woods. Literally, you cant find any plain there. So there is no option to stay on wood edge.

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

In the TT you sure could get cover modifiers from forests when playing against Wood Elves, their archers had the advantage when they were deployed at the edge of forests and the enemy was out in the open.

In the last WE book for Warhammer Fantasy, they did gain an extra rank from which they shot while within woods, and for melee too. But the main point about them being a forest army was their ease of movement through the woods, it's this attribute more than anything else that ought to be represented in the Total War game in order to make the army feel like a Wood Elven one of the Warhammer world.

I haven't played the TW game for a while now but I hope that there are at least SOME bonuses or advantages the WE army gains from forests.

Well they get some speed and precision bonuses uspposedly while in woods, but i cant see any real dofference.

I can see the argument, that trees still stop arrows and that in the table top games it worked a bit alike. But the fact remains , that for me to be avoiding battles in forest while playing wood elves seemy like a travesty.

MAybe if you could boost archers speed by 30 in the woods so they can keep at distanc eany unit apart from cavalry/flying ones and add 50 % ammuniton more, it should be enough to feel an advantage. They still would deal the damage much slower which is a huge disadvantage, but it could work.

[Spiderman4000]

well i got attacked by an army of 5 forest dragons and lots of melee units, so i hid in the forest as i my army was full of cheap archers, they cannot find me lol, if i face the dragon army in open battle i would die eeeh

[FireStorm20]

imho you will die here too. First as soon as you shoot , you will be revealed. Second Dragons fly fast and uncover a lot ground around them, so they will find you eventually.

I dont see how the forest helped here beside delaying the slaughter.

[Aidenwolf]

Sure, physics would prevent arrows from going through trees but the thing is, any capable archer wouldn't you know, aim at a tree...If you have line of sight on an enemy between adjacent trees you'd hit them.