How do you deal with waywatcher spam playing as Dwarfs?

[SleepyNarwhalz]

In the new update it has made it so that an army of waywatchers can destroy the dwarfs without htem being able to do anything, how do you deal with it?

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Harukage původně napsal:

Now, waywatchjers have limited ammo and they will run out of it eventualy. And became close to useless. There is no point in a hidden units, that wont be able to break any dwarf infantry in melee. It would be just annoying for both players.

That did actually happen eventually for me the second time I ran into it (the first time I went for a small elite army, big mistake) where I just took a bunch of dwarf warriors and quarrelers so he would run out of ammo. It took 15 minutes of sitting there to happen though, so I hope CA fixes it sooner rather than later.

Velamont původně napsal:

SleepyNarwhalz původně napsal:

That came to mind, but gyros are too weak against missile fire to be able to do it

Give them a choise: They shoot your gyros and die from arty or the try to shoot arty and die from gyros. You don't really need many gyros vs them. Bombs just wipe out their full units.

I'll keep it in mind :)

[DiViNe NeKO]

SleepyNarwhalz původně napsal:

In the new update it has made it so that an army of waywatchers can destroy the dwarfs without htem being able to do anything, how do you deal with it?

The best way to counter waywatcher archers are cavalry/speed units thats it.

Elves break easy once they are stuck fighting, you need flank the archers from 2 sides and they cant escape.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

DiViNE NeKO původně napsal:

SleepyNarwhalz původně napsal:

In the new update it has made it so that an army of waywatchers can destroy the dwarfs without htem being able to do anything, how do you deal with it?

The best way to counter waywatcher archers are cavalry/speed units thats it.

Elves break easy once they are stuck fighting, you need flank the archers from 2 sides and they cant escape.

What would you suggest I use as a flanking unit?

[Dixie Normus]

Do you mean in auto-resolve? Because you should try to avoid that with dwarves anyway. CA loves to recycle their games so they still use the good old crappy calculation that goes by unit size. Dwarves have small unit sizes...add WAAGHS to that and you have the reason why Dwarves almost always get steamrolled.

If you are talking about manual combat and not getting in range or being kited, without cav my best guess would be to shatter morale with artillery and spells if you can't get the melee damage in.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Frakkin Toasters původně napsal:

Do you mean in auto-resolve? Because you should try to avoid that with dwarves anyway. CA loves to recycle their games so they still use the good old crappy calculation that goes by unit size. Dwarves have small unit sizes...add WAAGHS to that and you have the reason why Dwarves almost always get steamrolled. Small unit sizes.

If you are talking about manual combat and not getting in range or being kited, without cav my best guess would be to shatter morale with artillery and spells if you can't get the melee damage in.

I'm talking online battles here

[Dixie Normus]

Could have realized that. Yeah, it's a pretty frustrating experience, but the same applies, go for morale debuffs. Have you tried using your more well-armored ranged units to mirror them, do they still just outdamage you? Grudgethrowers are also anti-infantry, any success with adding them?

Edit: I mean Leadership, haven't gotten used to the new name.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Frakkin Toasters původně napsal:

Could have realized that. Yeah, it's a pretty frustrating experience, but the same applies, go for morale debuffs. Have you tried using your more well-armored ranged units to mirror them, do they still just outdamage you?

Since they have more range, stalk and armor piercing quarrelers can't actually shoot at them unless the player doesn't pay any attention. I think I might just stop playing dwarfs in quick battles until CA fixes it a bit

[Dixie Normus]

I'm not a big Dwarf guy (hah, big Dwarf) myself, but it does seem like the design of the Elven units is a big counter to slow, bulky armies in general. Not having Cav must really hurt. Except expensive air cav that you already discussed.

[Barser]

Hmm I just tried against the AI. The waywatchers did not kill more than about 50 when using all there arrows on the dwarfs. I can see how it would be kinda effective if you are good at micro and the dwarf player just sits and wait, but still i think the dwarfs can deal with it just fine.

For a unit that costs more than 1000 I wouldn't say 50 kills is impressive when used optimal.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Barser původně napsal:

Hmm I just tried against the AI. The waywatchers did not kill more than about 50 when using all there arrows on the dwarfs. I can see how it would be kinda effective if you are good at micro and the dwarf player just sits and wait, but still i think the dwarfs can deal with it just fine.

For a unit that costs more than 1000 I wouldn't say 50 kills is impressive when used optimal.

Were you the waywatchers, or were you the dwarfs?

[Barser]

SleepyNarwhalz původně napsal:

Barser původně napsal:

Hmm I just tried against the AI. The waywatchers did not kill more than about 50 when using all there arrows on the dwarfs. I can see how it would be kinda effective if you are good at micro and the dwarf player just sits and wait, but still i think the dwarfs can deal with it just fine.

For a unit that costs more than 1000 I wouldn't say 50 kills is impressive when used optimal.

Were you the waywatchers, or were you the dwarfs?

I was the elves and went around them spreading out with the waywatchers going in and out against the AI. I had 4 waywatchers and they used all there arrows mostly on shots from behind, but they didn't rack up all that many kills. I guess if the AI was human he should be able to pop some shots at me also. But it is a good strategy against the dwarfs though as far as I can see you should be able to deal with them.

People always talk about dwarfs because they are so different than the rest. Some say they are OP others say they are weak.

[SleepyNarwhalz]

Barser původně napsal:

SleepyNarwhalz původně napsal:

Were you the waywatchers, or were you the dwarfs?

I was the elves and went around them spreading out with the waywatchers going in and out against the AI. I had 4 waywatchers and they used all there arrows mostly on shots from behind, but they didn't rack up all that many kills. I guess if the AI was human he should be able to pop some shots at me also. But it is a good strategy against the dwarfs though as far as I can see you should be able to deal with them.

In all the times I've had it done against me in MP they have done much better then that and in all the times I've tested it against the AI I've won.

Barser původně napsal:

People always talk about dwarfs because they are so different than the rest. Some say they are OP others say they are weak.

I'm not saying they're weak, I'm saying that this is a strategy that they have very few to no counters to and certainly none that can be done in a timely fashion. I love playing as the dwarfs in MP, which is why I'm bringing it up because this is incredibly frustrating.

[Keji]

XIII původně napsal:

They are visible when they shoot. So you put your army into a formation that allows you to easily return fire whenever they pop up.

waywatchers can shoot, run and stay hidden all at once (i think it may be only in woods though)

[Harukage]

Just take more rangers in your army when fighing WE imo. When you see them firing just circle around and goad them into your army instead of the oposite direction they want to move.

[DaBo81]

How much damage can Welf archers do to armoured, sheilded dwarves before they run out of ammo though? I personally don't know but I'm curious to find out so I might try some Welf/dwarf custom battles. With regard to the campaign dwarves, the obvious answer is to use a master engineer to boost range of your quarellers.