How useful is the Helblaster Volley Gun?

[Paragon]

Title really. It dosen't seem that good so far compared to other choices of a unit, but with its AP ability and the incoming chaos hordes...

Basically, how do I use it? I had tried Gatling guns in Shogun 2 and found they were more a novelty than useful, its place better used for artillery.

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Markness:

Sit back deep and bait an attack from the enemy army to charge at you. I usually aim those volley guns at their strong infantry and later on once they have finally arrived at you their archers and/or their artillery. Siege equipment is super OP versus AI if you can bait an attack in on them. Versus chaos they usually don't have a whole lot of ranged (if any) at all, so I'll aim my hellblaster volley guns at their cannon once their chosen are too close to my army.

Its direct fire only though. Does that mean you need a hill to do this? Or do you just flank the guns with infantry?

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Originally posted by Markness:

Sit back deep and bait an attack from the enemy army to charge at you. I usually aim those volley guns at their strong infantry and later on once they have finally arrived at you their archers and/or their artillery. Siege equipment is super OP versus AI if you can bait an attack in on them. Versus chaos they usually don't have a whole lot of ranged (if any) at all, so I'll aim my hellblaster volley guns at their cannon once their chosen are too close to my army.

Its direct fire only though. Does that mean you need a hill to do this? Or do you just flank the guns with infantry?

Even thunderers/handgunners still have arcs, and if their range was long enough they could arc over their friends. The hellblaster volley gun is basically firing large bullets, which means they fire at a higher angle, so until the enemy are right up to you you can just fire from behind your lines, then aim at cav and such that cannot be caught/missile cav

[Empiro]

I've found them to be hit or miss. I think it's important to aim them at the right targets.

A common suggestion I've seen has been to put them behind lords / heroes / steam tanks, so that they can shoot around those units into the crowd. If everything works out well, the guns get tons of kills.

However, a lot of times they're a miss because the AI is really good at doing things like pushing through your infantry (or just running around) with Chariots and Knights to attack the guns.

[Warhunter]

another way you could try is to set up a \ . / formation
the lines being your infantry and the dot being either a lord or steam tank since they don't take up too much room to allow your helblaster to hit enemies freely.

and once the mid is gone it should be too hard to move the helblaster slighty forward to hit the enemy units hitting your infantry on your flanks

[Wyvern]

While I like the helblaster for thematic reasons, it isn't really that good for much of anything, you're better suited running most of the other arty pieces, or steam tanks, or a unit of handguns, or outriders, or outriders with grens... the list goes on and on.

If you really want to use it, try to get it up on a hill behind your force, or out on the flanks, just make sure you have infantry ready to screen it. You can also do what others have suggested and bait your enemy with a lord/steam tank. Sometimes I also put them toward the center, in the gaps in my infantry line.

[Pimpin Pippin]

hellblasters have great damage per second but you need to make sure they can fire at the enemy (straight line of fire).

Against big units like giants and arachnarok a hellblaster will break (or even kill) it faster than any other empire unit.

They also tear apart large air units that are stupid enough to stay in their line of fire.

Think of Hellblaster volley guns as huge Miniguns that inflict death on anything that they can actually shoot at.

[Private Pyle]

In my current campaign, my volley guns are leveling extremely fast but only getting 25-35 kills per battle. I feel like im doing good hp dam but not getting kills.

I love the idea of the unit, but in practice I feel like it just too situational. Maintaing a clear line of fire to an optimal target is tough.

Hand gunners and especially outriders have the mobility to adapt to the situation and give u great ranged AP damage.

They may not be practical but they are pretty fun to use when you can force the enemy to rush the gun. Even if i have my complaints about the unit. I still havent had an infantry you actually get in range to attack the cannon so thats saying something.

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Ratt (Road to 1.5k):

In my current campaign, my volley guns are leveling extremely fast but only getting 25-35 kills per battle. I feel like im doing good hp dam but not getting kills.

I love the idea of the unit, but in practice I feel like it just too situational. Maintaing a clear line of fire to an optimal target is tough.

Hand gunners and especially outriders have the mobility to adapt to the situation and give u great ranged AP damage.

They may not be practical but they are pretty fun to use when you can force the enemy to rush the gun. Even if i have my complaints about the unit. I still havent had an infantry you actually get in range to attack the cannon so thats saying something.

Way to solve LoS issue, move the unit directly in from of it to the side, so that the hellblaster can fire directly into the enemy as they approach. Then, have small gaps in you line, not large enough for a unit to fit through, but wide enough so the enemy can overflow and come out on the sides. Then, watch as the volley gun fires into the flanks, killing anyone stupid enough to try and surround your individual units

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Warhunter:

another way you could try is to set up a \ . / formation
the lines being your infantry and the dot being either a lord or steam tank since they don't take up too much room to allow your helblaster to hit enemies freely.

and once the mid is gone it should be too hard to move the helblaster slighty forward to hit the enemy units hitting your infantry on your flanks

This was how I used the gatling in Shogun 2 FOTS. 2 infantry flanking the gun in the center, and have the infantry countercharge and pincer attacking armies. Enemy armies are forced to turn to face your melee units and are locked in place due to battle, exposing their sides to deadly gatling fire. It also leaves a lot of room to let them retreat once broken.

Originally posted by Wyvern:

While I like the helblaster for thematic reasons, it isn't really that good for much of anything, you're better suited running most of the other arty pieces, or steam tanks, or a unit of handguns, or outriders, or outriders with grens... the list goes on and on.

I felt the same way in Shogun 2 and here. If you want an artillery piece there are many better alternatives, and if you want a functional regiment there are many that are more flexible and generally more useful to your army.

But like said earlier, armor is a much bigger issue here. Is this basically just an anti-large unit? Or an anti-armor unit, to kill regiments of chaos warriors? Does it do these jobs better than say, an outrider or handgunner regiment?

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Originally posted by Warhunter:

another way you could try is to set up a \ . / formation
the lines being your infantry and the dot being either a lord or steam tank since they don't take up too much room to allow your helblaster to hit enemies freely.

and once the mid is gone it should be too hard to move the helblaster slighty forward to hit the enemy units hitting your infantry on your flanks

This was how I used the gatling in Shogun 2 FOTS. 2 infantry flanking the gun in the center, and have the infantry countercharge and pincer attacking armies. Enemy armies are forced to turn to face your melee units and are locked in place due to battle, exposing their sides to deadly gatling fire. It also leaves a lot of room to let them retreat once broken.

Originally posted by Wyvern:

While I like the helblaster for thematic reasons, it isn't really that good for much of anything, you're better suited running most of the other arty pieces, or steam tanks, or a unit of handguns, or outriders, or outriders with grens... the list goes on and on.

I felt the same way in Shogun 2 and here. If you want an artillery piece there are many better alternatives, and if you want a functional regiment there are many that are more flexible and generally more useful to your army.

But like said earlier, armor is a much bigger issue here. Is this basically just an anti-large unit? Or an anti-armor unit, to kill regiments of chaos warriors? Does it do these jobs better than say, an outrider or handgunner regiment?

It's basically an anti-high end blob unit meant to shut down things like cavalry, heavy infantry, and in a pinch monstrous infantry and monsters, but its not really that good vs such big hp, low model count units. Honestly, given its short range, poor flexibility, and general lack of effective DPS when compared to some of the alternatives, I would say it's not worth taking over handguns or outriders unless, like I said, you want it for theme/cool appearances(its the only reason i ran them in my armies)

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

It's basically an anti-high end blob unit meant to shut down things like cavalry, heavy infantry, and in a pinch monstrous infantry and monsters, but its not really that good vs such big hp, low model count units. Honestly, given its short range, poor flexibility, and general lack of effective DPS when compared to some of the alternatives, I would say it's not worth taking over handguns or outriders unless, like I said, you want it for theme/cool appearances(its the only reason i ran them in my armies)

How do you kill Cav with these units? If anything I would think flanking cav kills these units. Even the AI isn't stupid enough to charge right into battery fire, and even if it did likely the artillery piece would take a lot of damage before the enemy cav can be made to rout.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Paragon:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

It's basically an anti-high end blob unit meant to shut down things like cavalry, heavy infantry, and in a pinch monstrous infantry and monsters, but its not really that good vs such big hp, low model count units. Honestly, given its short range, poor flexibility, and general lack of effective DPS when compared to some of the alternatives, I would say it's not worth taking over handguns or outriders unless, like I said, you want it for theme/cool appearances(its the only reason i ran them in my armies)

How do you kill Cav with these units? If anything I would think flanking cav kills these units. Even the AI isn't stupid enough to charge right into battery fire, and even if it did likely the artillery piece would take a lot of damage before the enemy cav can be made to rout.

It's kinda like organ guns, you have to deploy them on the flanks, kinda behind your force, and rotate them to face the cav when it goes for the flank, it doesnt work as well as the organ guns do because the alpha is lower and their range is shorter, but it can do the job pretty effectively. Otherwise, the good old net of ammyntok is an easy as pie fix for any inability to engage a target. Obviously, if cav gets on top of your guns, then you might as well wave them goodbye.

[TaurusBully]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Originally posted by Paragon:

This was how I used the gatling in Shogun 2 FOTS. 2 infantry flanking the gun in the center, and have the infantry countercharge and pincer attacking armies. Enemy armies are forced to turn to face your melee units and are locked in place due to battle, exposing their sides to deadly gatling fire. It also leaves a lot of room to let them retreat once broken.



I felt the same way in Shogun 2 and here. If you want an artillery piece there are many better alternatives, and if you want a functional regiment there are many that are more flexible and generally more useful to your army.

But like said earlier, armor is a much bigger issue here. Is this basically just an anti-large unit? Or an anti-armor unit, to kill regiments of chaos warriors? Does it do these jobs better than say, an outrider or handgunner regiment?

It's basically an anti-high end blob unit meant to shut down things like cavalry, heavy infantry, and in a pinch monstrous infantry and monsters, but its not really that good vs such big hp, low model count units. Honestly, given its short range, poor flexibility, and general lack of effective DPS when compared to some of the alternatives, I would say it's not worth taking over handguns or outriders unless, like I said, you want it for theme/cool appearances(its the only reason i ran them in my armies)

This.

And since it can be flanked by fast units, it´s damage output shoud be much higher, even if it that cause it´s ammunition to end faster.

[Reverend Belial]

They're better than they used to be, that's for sure. Still not fantastic though and could use more hitting power.