How to put units into formations?

[Kreddi]

Like loose or tight formation. Shield wall, pike wall.

[TVMAN]

The only formations that are in the game are the ones present in the tabletop game, like Bretonnia's wedge formation.

[Kreddi]

So... They removed a lot of the tactical thinking from the game?

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

So... They removed a lot of the tactical thinking from the game?

What tactical thinking? Clicking a button to put guys in an objectively better stance like Spear Wall that you would never toggle them out of 99% of the time? It's micromanagement and I can take or leave it. If you look closely, many of these things are built into the units. Zombies for example already are in loose formation because they are expendable meat shields meant to soak up enemy fire, while your Graveguard are in a tight formation to perform better in melee. Most units, like Spearmen for example, already brace for impact when being Charged by the enemy and negate the bonus from Cavalry, Monsterous Infantry, and Monsters. All without requiring a button click. Lastly, as mention this is based on the Tabletop game, which did not have Formations like in previous Total War games, so they were left out with few exceptions like Bretonnia's Wedge formation which they did have in TT.

[Kreddi]

Ohh right, I guess we should just have the game play itself then. It would be much less micro intensive if the AI controlled every unit and made all the battle decissions.
But why stop there! Why not have the AI play the kingdom management as well. So few buttons would have to be pressed, and even less decisions would have to be made by the player.
Brilliant.

PS: This isn't a tabletop game, this is a Total War game.

[ArchaicReaper]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Ohh right, I guess we should just have the game play itself then. It would be much less micro intensive if the AI controlled every unit and made all the battle decissions.
But why stop there! Why not have the AI play the kingdom management as well. So few buttons would have to be pressed, and even less decisions would have to be made by the player.
Brilliant.

PS: This isn't a tabletop game, this is a Total War game.

Yes, let's take everything to extremes because that's productive. Shield Wall/Spear Wall/whatever is not a decision, it's just better in every case. There's never a reason to take it off except to chase someone, which means you probably already won. If you're looking for buttons to press, Characters have them. Adding a bunch more to your units is just excessive.
Another astute observation, this is in fact not the TT game. However, it BASED on the TT game. It's not just TW, it is Total War: Warhammer and thus used elements from both. Look around the forums, you can see people complaining it's not close enough to TT/Lore and you can find complaints of it not being "TW" enough. Like right here. There is no perfect combination, so some things that some people want will be left out.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

So... They removed a lot of the tactical thinking from the game?

Only because other tactical considerations, such as magic and micromanagement of monstrous creatures was added.

Some of the abilities do still exist in some form, however - unit that have some form of Charge Defence can be assumed to have a defensive stance that they automatically move into when stationary (so a unit of Empire Spearmen is considered to be in a kind of spear wall whenever they're stationary which will negate the Charge Bonus of any Large unit (so cavalry and bigger) that charges them from the front.

[PureH]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Ohh right, I guess we should just have the game play itself then. It would be much less micro intensive if the AI controlled every unit and made all the battle decissions.
But why stop there! Why not have the AI play the kingdom management as well. So few buttons would have to be pressed, and even less decisions would have to be made by the player.
Brilliant.

PS: This isn't a tabletop game, this is a Total War game.

Its also a warhammer game which there basing this off with its mechanics etc. So yer.

[Wyvern]

While formations might have been cool to have for "immersion" from an actual gameplay perspective they don't add all that much since, as others have mentioned, there was almost never much of a point to cycle between them. Different types of units also operate in different formations, bracing is present when units are stationary(it still takes micro to do this if you are trying to reposition your infantry to intercept cav, just one less button click though). And that's ignoring the addition of heroes with abilities and various magics.

[Darcaem]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Ohh right, I guess we should just have the game play itself then. It would be much less micro intensive if the AI controlled every unit and made all the battle decissions.
But why stop there! Why not have the AI play the kingdom management as well. So few buttons would have to be pressed, and even less decisions would have to be made by the player.
Brilliant.

PS: This isn't a tabletop game, this is a Total War game.

This do exists. It is call youtubers :)

I share your concern, TWW lacks all tactical depth of previous TW games, it is way more arcade. I use this mod, it is not actually a great improvement, but at least is something

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834440120&searchtext=formation

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Darcaem:

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Ohh right, I guess we should just have the game play itself then. It would be much less micro intensive if the AI controlled every unit and made all the battle decissions.
But why stop there! Why not have the AI play the kingdom management as well. So few buttons would have to be pressed, and even less decisions would have to be made by the player.
Brilliant.

PS: This isn't a tabletop game, this is a Total War game.

This do exists. It is call youtubers :)

I share your concern, TWW lacks all tactical depth of previous TW games, it is way more arcade. I use this mod, it is not actually a great improvement, but at least is something

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=834440120&searchtext=formation

The tactical depth of what? You look at almost any youtube video of other TW games and it's a full frontal slugfest even more offensive than dorf on dorf in TW WH. The ability to toggle formations does very little to enhance tactical opportunity or potential especially when most people just stay in one formation like shieldwall. It's basically streamlining so the player can focus on maneuver and deploying spells, abilities, air units etc(adding a 3rd dimension to WH TW has had a fairly massive effect, since it opens many more avenues of approach that have to be considered). It also helps differentiate units and function. Asrai spears won't really stop cav despite being anti large because they lack mass, formation density and charge defense, thus you need to slow the enemy down with something else, like Eternal guard, treekin etc, then counterattack with your asrais.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

Originally posted by Kreddi:

So... They removed a lot of the tactical thinking from the game?

What tactical thinking? Clicking a button to put guys in an objectively better stance like Spear Wall that you would never toggle them out of 99% of the time? .

Better stance for particular circumstances because you actually you lost 99% of all mobility while using shieldwall/testudo/spearwall etc and more easily flanked & sandwitched and not being able to withdraw. So it was a tradeoff. Sometimes you want to utilize a units staying-power rather than killing-power so others can do the killing. Circumstancial just like in history actually. Units did btw also brace for charges in Rome 2 & forward so that wasnt exacly new or special for warhammer.



But I realise thats not everyones cup of the and with warhammer being fantasy anyway it can be the most arcady title in the series, and thats fine

[Kreddi]

Of course there were trade-offs to putting units in a formation, are you guys serious?
Less mobility
Stamina draining even when out of combat
Much narrower fronts meaning you are more likely to be surrounded
Units in pike formation not actively fighting enemies flanking them as they were trying to only hold one front.


Removing this feature was definitely a move to make the game easier, and more cinematic, to appeal to a bigger and more newbie crowd.

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

Of course there were trade-offs to putting units in a formation, are you guys serious?
Less mobility
Stamina draining even when out of combat
Much narrower fronts meaning you are more likely to be surrounded
Units in pike formation not actively fighting enemies flanking them as they were trying to only hold one front.


Removing this feature was definitely a move to make the game easier, and more cinematic, to appeal to a bigger and more newbie crowd.

Totally agree and it's totally sad.

[Cadia101]

In this game it's know passive ability and no it's not a downgrade, take the charge defence, it's only work if the enemy charge you in the front and that you don't move, this mean if your flanked you don't get the bonus and if you reposition you risque to be chage in movement. They are still tactical deph, it's just different.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Kreddi:

So... They removed a lot of the tactical thinking from the game?

Total War: Warhammer is a spinoff series and is only connected to the historical series by the Total War branding. They didn't remove anything since TW:W is the first game in a totally new series. Formations outside of the Table Top formations were never in this game in the first place.

If they remove formations in the next Historical game, then you'll be justified in getting this upset.