I don't understand Beastmen Sieges

[Muscarine]

I'm on Normal grand campaign, and i just don't understand how i'm supposed to progress, i feel i'm missing key mechanics.

It's been 50 turns or so and all i can do is attack minor settlements, because the enemy Lords simply never leave their capitals. They camp there, vastly outnumber me and my absence of siege weapons while they all pack dozens of ranged units and 2-3 canons.
I figured i need Cygors but that's a ♥♥♥♥ tone of growth and favor, i can't imagine being able to afford that before another 50-60 turns just raiding and attacking whatever minor settlement is respawned. So i guess that's not it.

I have 2 parties, one at 19 and one at 16, level ~10 average, playing Morghul so Chaos Spawns and Harpies, a few dogs, a few cheap frontliners, and some raiders.

I got a beyherd, figured we'll attack all together so i told them to target the less solid enemy capital i could find, they got there, started a siege, and never ♥♥♥♥ing stopped, and i realized i couldn't attack while they do so.
I passed 10 turns, nope, they still siege, and the AI spams me with agents attempting to assassinate my own leaders.
So i'm stucked between a supposedly allied beyherd which denies me my objective and assassispam, other capitals are a no go unless i click end turn 60 times for Cygors, corruption does nothing, the AI doesn't even bother rebuilding their settlements anymore.

What's the strategy ? Play shaman and abuse devolve ? Somehow rush Cygors by turn 10 ?
I don't get it.
Any tactical input would be greatly appreciated.

[l33tness08]

Don't set the "beyherd" target. Just siege cities yourself, and if you've given them no target they'll just follow your parent army, then when they're in range you can begin the assault and they'll join you.

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by l33tness08:

Don't set the "beyherd" target. Just siege cities yourself, and if you've given them no target they'll just follow your parent army, then when they're in range you can begin the assault and they'll join you.

I tried that, made sure they were in range along with my other party, they didn't show.
Reloaded in case i missed something, they wouldn't move closer, couldn't get them to join me.

[Sagranda]

Get Ruination in the blue tree, the less enemy siege holdout technology and starve them to death if they have way more troops.
When you start a siege, the brayherd should join you after one or two rounds unless they have a set target.
If they don't join you/don't get in range then it sounds like a bug. That's at least what I assume, since it never happened in all of my Beastmen playthroughs. They always get into reinforcement range/get shown as reinforcements. Do you have mods running?

I don't think that I ever rushed Cygors as Morghur. I usually try to get Chaos Spawns first and afterwards either Giants, Gor Herds/Bestigors or Cygors.

[TVMAN]

Minotaurs are your friend in sieges. Monstrous units can beat down gates relatively quickly, and you can get minotaurs early on in a Beastmen campaign.

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by Sagranda:

Get Ruination in the blue tree, the less enemy siege holdout technology and starve them to death if they have way more troops.
When you start a siege, the brayherd should join you after one or two rounds unless they have a set target.
If they don't join you/don't get in range then it sounds like a bug. That's at least what I assume, since it never happened in all of my Beastmen playthroughs. They always get into reinforcement range/get shown as reinforcements. Do you have mods running?

I don't think that I ever rushed Cygors as Morghur. I usually try to get Chaos Spawns first and afterwards either Giants, Gor Herds/Bestigors or Cygors.

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Minotaurs are your friend in sieges. Monstrous units can beat down gates relatively quickly, and you can get minotaurs early on in a Beastmen campaign.

I'm playing Morghur so i avoided the Minotaurs tree for Chaos Spawns.

It's vanilla i usually don't mod my first playthroughs, there's enough to learn already.
The brayherd wouldn't come closer so i assumed i had to give them a target. Bad luck i guess.
I think they stuck themselves on my other party.
I didn't know Chaos Spawns could take down doors that's good to know thank you, i wish i realized that, how can you tell ? Special abilities icons ?

Now, how to deal with the overwhelming odds ? Every capital is a massive red odd according to autoresolve (it's hard to tell as a noob so i use that to know if i'm in for a spanking) and not even a tiny sliver of yellow.
Did i take too long ? It's turn 60 or so now since i waited for the brayherd to move up to no avail.
How can i bait enemy lords out of their gates ? None of them will get out, even when i place half an army in range with the other hidden in reinforcement range, they don't care. They shouldn't know but apparently they do, since they do come out if there's no hidden army ready for backup and i don't stand a chance.
Otherwise they just stay there and never leave, and i'm under the impression i'm supposed to soften them up before attempting sieges.

[WE ARE OUT OF EGGS]

you gotta lure em out
be the extra sneaky dude beast

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Muscarine:

I didn't know Chaos Spawns could take down doors that's good to know thank you, i wish i realized that, how can you tell ?

You should be able to just order the chaos spawn to attack the gate.

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by Trofammed:

you gotta lure em out
be the extra sneaky dude beast

Yes ? I'm asking how you guys do that

[ArchaicReaper]

If you can't take their cities so be it, keep destroying the smaller places. Grow larger and more powerful while their corrupt lands blight them and give rise to Chaos Rebels. With you gone they should rebuild and then you can just repeat the process. Sooner or later you'll either wear them down or become strong enough to wipe them out. If you can get both Warherds backed by Brayherds together you'll be able to wipe out any city in Autoresolve.

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

If you can't take their cities so be it, keep destroying the smaller places. Grow larger and more powerful while their corrupt lands blight them and give rise to Chaos Rebels. With you gone they should rebuild and then you can just repeat the process. Sooner or later you'll either wear them down or become strong enough to wipe them out. If you can get both Warherds backed by Brayherds together you'll be able to wipe out any city in Autoresolve.

I was hesitating to do so because wouldn't that mean they have all the time in the world to turtle up and grow even stronger themselves ?

[Shandor]

I think you build to many weak units that die in a heartbeat. Like Hounds and Harpies.

You should get Bestigors, Centigors, Minos or Chaos Spawn. But leaving out Minos for Chaos spawn is not a great idea. Minotaurus is your best Unit by far.

To Siege a Capital city you should get 2 Armies of 20 Units. Build 2 or 4 Siege towers for toe Bestigors and crush the wall with Mostrous infantry.. Mino/Spawn. Overrun the first infantry defenders t reach the ranged units behind them and attack the Infantry you did overrun with your Monsters with your infantry or shoot them.

2 Armies + a hayberd wont hurt.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Muscarine:

I was hesitating to do so because wouldn't that mean they have all the time in the world to turtle up and grow even stronger themselves ?

Sacking/razing the smaller cities and breaking the AI hold over provinces will really screw up their economy. The AI can't maintain several stacks if all they're left with is one or two major cities surrounded by ruins.

[Muscarine]

Originally posted by Shandor:

I think you build to many weak units that die in a heartbeat. Like Hounds and Harpies.

You should get Bestigors, Centigors, Minos or Chaos Spawn. But leaving out Minos for Chaos spawn is not a great idea. Minotaurus is your best Unit by far.

To Siege a Capital city you should get 2 Armies of 20 Units. Build 2 or 4 Siege towers for toe Bestigors and crush the wall with Mostrous infantry.. Mino/Spawn. Overrun the first infantry defenders t reach the ranged units behind them and attack the Infantry you did overrun with your Monsters with your infantry or shoot them.

2 Armies + a hayberd wont hurt.

Well it works really well on the field i won my last engagement at 50/50 with barely 11 death against their 900 or so (no auto resolve but don't forget i'm on Normal, not Legendary), and Minotaures are @ +40% upkeep with Morghur so i figured i should avoid them.
Morghur also has buffs for chaos units so it makes sense to focus on those as opposed to the other lords don't you think ?

Plus i don't think it'd be a good idea to spread my growth and favor over so many different buildings, just upgrading the tier and chaos tree is a lot already.

Thank you for the tactical input, although how can i do that when there are so many ranged units ? 1/5 of their units is infantry, the rest is pistoleers, crossbows, ranged cavalry, and siege weapons.

I picked Gorebull instead of shaman, is that why i'm having issues ? Most LPs i saw, people camp their shaman down the walls and double tap spells.

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Sacking/razing the smaller cities and breaking the AI hold over provinces will really screw up their economy. The AI can't maintain several stacks if all they're left with is one or two major cities surrounded by ruins.

I thought i'd do that, break them and spread corruption, but it says 60 turns for public disorder(which may very well attack me), and it's been over 20 turns i razed all their settlements, they don't rebuild, but somehow they still have a positive 80 income per turn despites this massive army.

[Lancaster]

I was going to recommend going to google and type in some beastman siege battles, but the top two are not really good examples. The first one is very well executed but it's against an equal size force, I like the battle, but it doesn't really apply.

The other video is sloppy, if it wasn't for the seriously vastly overwhelming force, I think the person would of won and been debilitated on the campaign. It would of been better if the second guy watched the first guy and would of ended up with a much better outcome.

I personally can't offer a lot of advice, because I cheese the AI alot, as in hiding my men in the forest and using my general to bait out all the artillery fire so they have nothing left.

I also use my general and a melee general to lead a large host of my troops to the door. With those two in front the towers target them, and they take reduced damage from missile fire and keeps your troops frosty.

I bring siege towers, with the guard towers shooting my generals my towers always make it to the wall.

Once on the wall it's all about match ups. Ungor first to tire out the enemy, but sometimes they get good match ups like they fight archers on the wall, and position your gorherd in places that the ungor are facing swordsmen.
If the AI has horses, those units are as good as useless. Horses are quite often in the capture zone. Horse archers can't get on the wall (obvious) and your archers can fire over the wall to hit them with deadly accuracy.

Chaos Spawn to break down the door, but send gorherds in to take care of the spear men guarding the gate, the spawn might lose the fight or be too damaged to help more. The gorherd are easily replaced after the battle, boot them out and recruit another. Chaos spawn are damage dealers and are better attacking the enemy from behind or supported by a melee defence unit.

I highly recommend watching Party Elites guide to siege battles, he explains things very well, also Zerkovich, I'm an "advanced player" and even I watched their guides and picked up new things.

[Muscarine]

Alright thank you, i use Morghur to bait ranged a lot too since i got lucky and he has a +20% ranged resist artifact so 90% total.

I'll make sure to watch both your recommendations.