Difference between Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts? (Lore)

[Blood & Thunder]

Both armies are formed of skeletons/zombies.
What is the difference between a tomb king and a vampire count?
Are they allies or enemies?

[Nick Naughty]

No zombies for tomb kings, no range units for vampire counts.

If one was like Count Dracula with ghouls and ghosts etc, the other would be like the mummy.

[Chameon]

Nick's got the mechanics. Lorewise, VC are more monstrous. They have megalomania issues, and an army can more or less form anywhere under any sufficiently competent coven of necros/faction of vampires.

Tomb Kings, on the flip side, are highly unlikely to leave their lands too terribly often. TK fight more like humans because most of them still are humans. They tend to move faster around their zone and act in more straightforward national ways. So you aren't having an army of TK rise up from your backyard, barring you setting up home on their lands. Furthermore, TK are united under one real leader, with the sole exception I know of being Arkham the black.

Edit: Because someone will bring this up if I don't, TK are only like living humans mentally is what I meant.

[DarkFenix]

Vampire Counts are very much undead from European mythology; vampires, zombies, ghosts and ghouls. Tomb Kings is more based on Egyptian mythology; mummies, insects and animated constructs. Both sides use skeletons, but VC use them as part of their fodder, while TK use them far more extensively as footsoldiers, elites and monstrous units.

As far as gameplay goes, the TK don't lack ranged units like VC do (they have archers, elite archers and siege engines), but the TK in tabletop apparently lack mobility.

[Nick Naughty]

Originally posted by Chameon:

Edit: Because someone will bring this up if I don't, TK are only like living humans mentally is what I meant.

Let me add to this.

Tomb kings armies consist of an anicent army, troops from before which are risen to serve once again their masters, much like the film "The Mummy", where vampire counts consists of undead random'ish joes, dead and buried and just plain dead, a few small are not so random like Vlad's personal guard.

[Pumis]

TK is more like Necrons, while VC is closer to tyranids.
TK don't create more undeads but keep reviving their troops, while VC keeps constantly reviving.
TK is more moral than VC.

[Harukage]

Well, prince Ushoran was far more humane and moral than any TK ruller was even when they were humans. Too bad his sister got all jelly about him building a vampire/human utopia.

[董]

Well to start with the most obvious one. Tomb kings r not vampires. They r more of mummy liches, no fangs to bite tasty necks.

I dont think they r cursed under the sun either, certainly love garlic more than vamps. No batman either, so vargheist, terroghiest, batlings etc.

They r 100% enemies, vamps serve nagash. Tomb kings want to kill nagash from destroying their entire race and turning them undead.

[Blood & Thunder]

Originally posted by Lady Mina:

Well to start with the most obvious one. Tomb kings r not vampires. They r more of mummy liches, no fangs to bite tasty necks.

I dont think they r cursed under the sun either, certainly love garlic more than vamps. No batman either, so vargheist, terroghiest, batlings etc.

They r 100% enemies, vamps serve nagash. Tomb kings want to kill nagash from destroying their entire race and turning them undead.

So this means they are enemies with the vampire counts?
I mean they would have really high aversion, right?

[Harukage]

Nah. Arkhan the Black is Nagash's right hand and he commands his own TK kingdom. Lore pretty much implies that Nagash had some hidden allies and colaborators among rulling elite and death cult of Nehekhara. including inside Khemri itself.

[董]

Originally posted by Andrei Zago:

So this means they are enemies with the vampire counts?
I mean they would have really high aversion, right?

They would definitely try to hack each other to death if they meet. And nagash is obsess with conquering them, each and everytime he revives he would almost certainly go back to khemri and seek a fight with the tomb kings. The kings have grown so strong during the thousands of years when nagash "died" hence he was never able to conquer them, till of coz the stupid age of sigmar lore breaking event.

[Harukage]

Originally posted by Lady Mina:

They would definitely try to hack each other to death if they meet. And nagash is obsess with conquering them, each and everytime he revives he would almost certainly go back to khemri and seek a fight with the tomb kings. The kings have grown so strong during the thousands of years when nagash "died" hence he was never able to conquer them, till of coz the stupid age of sigmar lore breaking event.

Well, he did conquer them and personaly dismembered Settra the raging-hat-lord in the first part of The End Times. The new Undead Legions army made Undead great again with new rulles, combined roster of TK and vampires as well as morghasts. The age of sigmar killed it along with other funny things like combined elven army.

[董]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Nah. Arkhan the Black is Nagash's right hand and he commands his own TK kingdom. Lore pretty much implies that Nagash had some hidden allies and colaborators among rulling elite and death cult of Nehekhara. including inside Khemri itself.

Ya well nagash himself is born in khemri lol, there r certainly a small portion of undead with dif allegiance. Arkhan is one of those crazy one, with crazy followers also. Majority, if not all khemri r under the tomb king rules, those who r not got destroyed when nagash "sleeps". Those who escape went into exiles hiding waiting for nagash to revive again, their numbers r ridiculously small.

Nagash always get fresh recruits when he wakes, go around zapping humans and reviving them as zombies skellies to fight the kings.

Age of sigmar is just stupid, they would kill off faction and characters with little or no details. Its just lame, afterall its the most hated edition. Example like thorgrim, king of the dwf, met his end getting stab by a rat lol, albiet a master skaven assasin but still pretty cheap way to die, especially for a dwf.
And beastman, they pretty much got wiped out and all the taint cleanse. Pretty much saying they exist for thousands of years and achieve nothing lol.

[Ysthrall]

Here's a silly snippet re Tomb Kings and Nagash, from Nagash's first novel.

His old buddy, Arkhan the Black. Later his general, at first a faithful follower and acolyte.

He's not called "the Black" because of his sorcerous power (pretty nasty), his deeds (classic dark lord), or even his current status as an undead warlord in black robes on a big chariot.

His "the Black" sobriquet is far older than any of those things, and dates from his life, possibly even from before he met an up-and-coming priest of royal heritage named Nagash....

Arkhan the Black. So named because of his teeth. Ew.

[Lord Kragan]

Originally posted by Lady Mina:

Originally posted by Harukage:

Nah. Arkhan the Black is Nagash's right hand and he commands his own TK kingdom. Lore pretty much implies that Nagash had some hidden allies and colaborators among rulling elite and death cult of Nehekhara. including inside Khemri itself.

Ya well nagash himself is born in khemri lol, there r certainly a small portion of undead with dif allegiance. Arkhan is one of those crazy one, with crazy followers also. Majority, if not all khemri r under the tomb king rules, those who r not got destroyed when nagash "sleeps". Those who escape went into exiles hiding waiting for nagash to revive again, their numbers r ridiculously small.

Nagash always get fresh recruits when he wakes, go around zapping humans and reviving them as zombies skellies to fight the kings.

Age of sigmar is just stupid, they would kill off faction and characters with little or no details. Its just lame, afterall its the most hated edition. Example like thorgrim, king of the dwf, met his end getting stab by a rat lol, albiet a master skaven assasin but still pretty cheap way to die, especially for a dwf.
And beastman, they pretty much got wiped out and all the taint cleanse. Pretty much saying they exist for thousands of years and achieve nothing lol.

That's End TImes, not AoS

Also, that's the whole gig of Deathmaster Snikch, his life's feats had been assassinating dwarven loyalty and the action had been done in order to decapitate the almost broken dwarfs.

Still, ET coverage of the dwarves was pure and undiluted crapp.

Also, that's been beastmen's shtick for a loong time.

[Lord Kragan]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Originally posted by Lady Mina:

They would definitely try to hack each other to death if they meet. And nagash is obsess with conquering them, each and everytime he revives he would almost certainly go back to khemri and seek a fight with the tomb kings. The kings have grown so strong during the thousands of years when nagash "died" hence he was never able to conquer them, till of coz the stupid age of sigmar lore breaking event.

Well, he did conquer them and personaly dismembered Settra the raging-hat-lord in the first part of The End Times. The new Undead Legions army made Undead great again with new rulles, combined roster of TK and vampires as well as morghasts. The age of sigmar killed it along with other funny things like combined elven army.

You can actually take them in a combined fashion in AoS, but you're better running pure TK IMO. Funny thing, they had always been pretty weak in WHFB and now they are more broken than Settra's bones after fighting Nagash.