Any tips on defeating a larger army with 10% his size?

[: D]

I've been trying to fight Cao Cao as Liu Bei (Three Visits scenario), and i can maybe hold off 1 wavce before the next 60k+ wave destroys me.

Is there a way that doesn't involve fire at the walls to beat a larger, higher morale army?

[(FLAH) Ken]

Best bet you can do is have a General like Guan Yu or Zhang Fei to defend the gate and have Zhao Yun to attack the back to make them retreat. It sucks but it does the job. Try and max out your troops because when you auto, they always leave reserves and AI gives some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ reserve officers to help you defend. And with only 10% of his 60k. I say have 4k troops to either Zhang Fei or Guan Yu depending on which kind of taste you want. Do you want the soldiers to last longer? Or have the enemy lose morale in a bulk? Then the other 2k of troops to Zhao Yun as he has the fastest speed to go around and attack the main camp. Downside is... The main camp probably has like 7-9k troops defending it and thats gonna suck... You can sacrifice and pull the enemy AI to believe you wont attack their main base. and then have zhao yun loop around or just do what you do and fire blast them all the way. There really isnt that much to it. He just literally snowballs everything. >< Eventually you will run out of money and food to sustain your soldiers and eventually you will lose.

Usually this kind of scenario calls for desperate times. I would try and ally with Liu Biao quickly and then pull out 1k of troops to lure cao cao to pull a crap ton of troops to aggro to it, then have a specialized 1 unit of 6-7k troops and take over 1 small city.

Or you can relocate to Yong Chang. Ceasefire with Liu Biao and head west to Ba Shu where Liu Zhang is at. Have Liu Biao be your scape goat and take over Ba Shu quickly before Ma Teng comes raining down south. Once you get Ba Shu, try and take Shi Xie, you really gotta snowball early or else Cao Cao will give no quarter. Shi Xie will not move his 3 cities and will rack up allot of money and food, that will nurture your nation.

But you know, Im just throwing ideas out there

[IlluminaZero]

Firstly you will want to play aggressively in controlled battles. The AI frequently lacks coordination with these massive armies and you can generally wipe them out piece by piece in back to back controlled battles. If you attempt to play defensively by hiding in your walls you will both suffer massive morale losses due to captured camps and you will give the AI an opportunity to rally more men.

Making a beeline for the enemy main camp is a mistake if you are trying to win on attrition. You want to wipe out the entire units so that the city will have to recruit more troops. Otherwise once the troops return to their home city they will be attacking you again within weeks. This is especially bad if you find yourself desperately finishing off camps while enemies are getting freebie hits on your unit's backs.

Shu has a lot of extremely powerful militant officers that have buffs that only apply to themselves. The only problem with their force is that all of these officers are competing for strategy resources and the Infantry focus makes it difficult to apply hit and run strategies while your strategy gauge is recharging.

I suspect the main determining factors would be:

1) How good you are at using hit and run with Zhao Yun (and other Cavalry generals?).

Part of what makes Lu Bu dangerous is that he can disengage while your strategy meter is recharging. Zhao Yun should be able to do the same to a lesser extent. You may want to turn Zhang Fei and Guan Yu into Cavalry for this reason alone, as their strategies are more offensively powerful than Zhao Yun's.

Addendum: You will want at least 2 Cavalry units for pincer opportunities. If Zhang Fei and Guan Yu are doing harrassment as well you will want them close to each other before activating (one of, cost) their strategies for the bond bonus.

2) Using Zhuge Liang's strategy in mass battles for complete one-sided wipe outs. Zhuge Liang's strategy is simply a ridiculously good wide AOE buff. Is there any reason to EVER use Liu Bei's (7 COST) "Cry of Justice" with Zhuge Liang around? Geez.

With good tactics you should be able to do complete wipes with minimal losses on your side. Especially if you use tactics well for buffs and traps.

[(FLAH) Ken]

Good Idea!
Also note, Characters with the skill "Strategy" will always block strike. Cao Cao is a great example. Even if Zhuge Liang's ability gives strike to all nearby units, they wont do any strikes on him. Even if you pincer Cao Cao, you do minimum damage because of his skill.

Another thing is if you're not playing Historically with the events, then use Xu Shu's Charge Command. When you're not able to strike, you'll need to do allot of flat damage, and Charge Command is your best bet.

[ianliew]

I don't usually play Shu, so I'm not sure what their generals really do, but Cao Cao has several advisors (Guo Jia, Jia Xu, Sima Yi) with very powerful skills that destroy your enemy's morale to the point where you can wipe them out at little to no cost to your army. Guo Jia has Lockdown, Jia Xu has something similar (but the enemy retreats (misled), so it's less desirable when you have to chase them down) while Sima Yi has Crafty Plot. All three skills will reduce morale within a small area of effect (you can hit 4 or 5 units simultaneously if you're lucky), and Att/Def can drop to 1/1 after a couple of seconds of fighting. try to pincer the individual armies one by one as they're affected, and you'll take them out really quick.

You only really need one general/advisor with one of those skills (preferably Lockdown or Crafty Plot) as they share resources anyway and you're not likely going to be able to fire two off at the same time anyway. Only reason you'll need more than one is if you're defending two chokepoints. All three are really hard to recruit from Cao Cao, though, so your best bet will be a custom officer with the same ability.

[IlluminaZero]

For 4 strategy Xu Shu's AOE charge command seems amazing with Shu's meatheads. Don't have too much experience using it firsthand though. I like using individual charges for both the raw damage and the ability to plow through the unit for a non-dancing pincer.

Cao Cao is amazingly tough but in the "Three Visits" scenario he should be mercifully far away from your force. One of the advantages of fighting a large force is that the AI tends to become more prone to deploying weak units that you can pick-off to weaken cities and global morale.

Debuffs are indeed amazing. Especially as they essentially serve a an army wide buff against afflicted units.

However Zhuge Liang's "Brilliant Maneuver" skill boosts morale, preserves morale, AND removes special effects atop the awesome ATK/DEF. If you are wary of the AI being tricky with debuffs both Cavalry hit and run and using a delayed "Brilliant Maneuver" should counter them nicely.

[forumcrybaby]

I have found the power imbalance with CAO CAOs forces in all ROTK games after the guan du scenario to be pretty broken. I understand how he controlled so much territory but the numbers they give him in game why didnt he just wipe out Sun Quan and Liu Bei all at once. Go to edit settings ingame an lower the troop count of all the cities. Thats what i like to do. He will still outnumber you but wont have 56000 troops coming from some desolate castle like Nan Pi or something...

[Vin362]

One thing you should also try to lookout for is debuffs like Mi Zhu’s panic horses that lowers the morale of cavalry units these tend to cost between one or two tactical points and can be used shortly after an expensive one like Zhuge Liang’s brilliant maneuver.

Others have mentioned strategy skills that lets units avoid strikes but there are other skills, like defense that increases defense when a unit is on a camp or castle wall, endurance raises morale when a unit is beaten, heroism grants strikes on the same unit class and arouse which increase attack when a unit falls below a certain troop count, all these skills can turn the tide of a battle.

Also keep in mind that Cao Cao has 25 cites under his control in Three Visits 207 A.D and doesn’t have to worry about being caught off guard by an attack from the rear and some of the cites have heavy troops while Liu Bei has one castle and is stuck with light, so expect enemy reinforcements in large numbers since they have little to fear.

[heinous won]

One idea. I did a version of this earlier on in the game and on a much longer playthrough, so I am not sure it's feasible. But attack Xinye, and then pull out *all* supplies from the city and abandon it. Rinse and repeat. Meanwhile train your troops up to gold. Once you have gold troops, while it is still an uphill battle, you will be able to hold your own a bit better.

It is also better to save your resources for taking out Jing before turning north, if events are on then wait until Liu Biao is gone and start conquering.

[: D]

Wait, so if i'm playing Liu Bei in Three Visits then I can just wait in Xinye for a Liu Biao event? Will that give me all of Liu Biao's bases?

[(FLAH) Ken]

No, Cao Cao will take over the remaining Liu Biao cities as Liu Biao's son surrenders to Cao Cao. Then there will be another event coming up which you will get a city for free. As the AI progresses, they will invade Jing province and eventually in 214 will be another event in which you take over Liu Zhang. Making you take Ba Shu instantly and also the Yun Nan province if Liu Zhang took the 4 free cities in Yun Nan.

[: D]

So if I just stayed holed up in Xinye the whole time, I'll eventually assimilate Liu Zhang's towns and force? I'm confused, since there's 2 free cities near to me that are really tempting to take.

[(FLAH) Ken]

If you play with Historical on. Then in a few months from the start, you move from Xinye to Jiangxia. Losing the city Xinye and all of Liu biaos cities to Cao Cao. Then after a few more months, Zhou Yu from Wu attacks Jiangling and you take the city for free because of Zhuge Liang. If you play as regular officer, then Liu Bei (AI) will invade the Jing province, and then eventually in 214, another event plays (IF) some certain cities arent taken. Then Liu Zhang's cities will all be absorbed by Liu Bei.

If you play as ruler as Liu Bei, then just staying as you are will work in half in half. Just know that if you start invading into Liu Zhang, you break the events triggering and all the AI will go haywire doing their own thing unlimiting themselves. It is okay to take Jing Province because theres no events that need those cities.