How to make the game less annoying (Automap, Inventory etc.)

[TJB]

I like the game, love the combat, atmosphere etc., but for me, the game is just too annoying to play right now. I know that you want your game to be challenging, which is great, but in my opinion, it is just inconvenient to play (I am not talking about the combat, which is great). So here are my suggestions how the game could be made more convenient to play:

1. Add an Automap: Drawing a map on paper is just a wast of time, since it does not involve any skill (I played Eye of the Beholder and other dungeon crawlers back in the day, so I can do it, but honestly, I just want to play the actual game). Since corridors/rooms look quite similar (same textures etc.) and swiveling the camera is needed frequently, I lose track of where I have been regularily, even with the compass, especially after restarting the game the next day. I think Legend of Grimrocks automap is great, as it does not reveal too much, but keeps you from running around in circles.

2. Bigger, better ordered inventory: Maybe include a keyring and a seperate section for books/notes. Carrying around all that stuff is not realistic anyhow, so if we are allowed/encouraged to do it, you may want to make it more convenient.

3. Different save system - I can just backup the save manually anyow (takes about 30 seconds), so why not add a quicksafe button? If you want to be hardcore, don't use it. I know your stance on permadeath, but honestly, you are simply making the game more annoying to play for those of us who want to save manually (this is not a rougelite where restarting from scratch is fun and part of the core gameplay loop, this is a linear dungeon crawler).

4. Controler support: only a limited number of keys is used anyhow, so enabling a controler should not require any compromises on complexety. I use a mouse and keyboard the whole day, so being able to play with a controler helps to reduce strain on the back/neck (office chair vs. chouch) and wrists.

[Rhabarber Barbar]

the controller support sounds reasonable for some
and i don't think the inventory stays the way it is now. maybe, i don't know
but the saves are good the way they are. and there are maps already

[Murf]

Here ya go, some info regarding maps in game from the dev. This is from feb 2015 from the BareMettle Insider forum but still holds true.

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

I think the map issue will always be somewhat subjective. Some people will want to wander around perhaps lost and enjoy trying to figure out where they are, some will want to be sure they've been everywhere before moving on and so and so forth.

We're still today not entirely sure what approach we want to take with maps. What we want to avoid is something that has you consulting a map rather than looking at your surroundings in game. This is actually not easy to achieve. In the context of Exanima, the only thing that would seem to work is finding a predrawn map so that there is no way for you to know where you are on it. A map that is drawn automatically would still show your progress and effectively where you are and where you haven't been. Rather than look at your surroundings and pay attention to them you're more likely to go by trial and error, running around somewhat aimlessly and looking at the map to see if the desired result was achieved.

This detracts from the game in more way than one, you don't look at your surroundings and take them in and you're constantly fiddling with the UI to monitor changes made without your knowledge and confirm your actions. Our aim is always to create a certain experience rather than a game of completing and scoring.

Still in the context of Exanima I'm personally of the opinion that a map is not necessary and potentially detrimental. We're aiming for something that is replayable with a relatively small amount of content (more features such as randomisation of items and character builds will reinforce this), where you have a go and aim to do better next time. You should in time become familiar with the environments and we are trying to make them look more and more distinct. This is quite different from an old school dungeon crawler where every room and corridor essentially looks the same.

From the dev regarding keys:

Originally posted by Bare Mettle:

.... We've wanted to add key rings since day 1, just takes a bit of work to do it well and haven't got round to it yet. We'd do it in a similar way to Ultima 8, it's an inventory object that keys are added to but we'd also like for it to open as a container so you can remove individual keys. Either way the key ring would behave much as keys do now but would automatically try all keys that are on it.

The devs do not want you to be able to time travel as you see fit., The save system will not be changed. They want your choices to have consequences. Not be able to save before you turn every corner. It has been brought up many times. This game is not for everyone and the devs know that.


Regarding controller support, they are working on it but it has not been implemented yet. They are also working on steam controller support. Some people have already got it working with various 3rd party controller schemes

[Greb]

As far as I'm aware, controllers are a planned feature.

The game could use a map, sure..but I'd prefer the map to be a found item that's only roughly sketched and not like a journal that fills in as you go. Just feels more natural that way. Maybe make it so once you've found a map, if you have a piece of charcoal or whatever, finding landmarks (maybe dragging and dropping said charcoal to the landmark akin to using a key on a door) would mark that on the map you've found, I.E if you come across an armoury, you'd mark its rough location on the map with a crude anvil...find a locked door, and you put a line between rooms to remind you it is locked/blocked off. I feel that this is only necessary if the game or Sui Generis is going to incorporate some kind of procedurally generated dungeons instead of set ones like Exanima, though.

The inventory system a wee bit cluttered, yes. I think there's a tiny box you can find on the first (perhaps second) level, right next to a key...either the key is inside the box or the box requires the key I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure you can drag that little box into your inventory and then store items inside it. It's been a while, can't rememebr for sure, it's possible it's been removed or dummied out, but yeah, lockboxes/sacks/keyrings would be a nice feature I'll admit. The inventory could use expanding, but only if a weight limit is added as well. Right now I feel the tiny cramped inventory works well with the hammerspace arsenal you can have.

It's a good feature, truly. Too many games have you capable of whipping out a potion and drinking it instantly even if you've got like 100 different potions in your backpack (like Skyrim) whereas Exanima, with its lack of pause and inventory clutter system, almost mimicks what it would be like to have to rummage through your backpack to find what you need in the heat of the moment...you have to appreciate that, right? Carrying less reduces stress, and all that.

The save system could do with some tweaking, I'll admit. Either multiple slots, or a dedicated slot for each potential difficulty I.E super hardcore, hardcore, and hardcore lite modes, having checkpoints, minimal checkpoints and no checkpoints at all sort of thing. Different strokes but, their stance is kinda well known and it's one of the major themes of the game, so don't go expecting too much. I don't want to see the game become a Dark Souls/Hotline Miami style thing that turns into you dying and popping straight back into the action...although I would like to see some kind of grave/remains system in play so that when you die, fair enough, next person comes along finds a bloodstain/skeletal remains/a grave marker, just for fun. Tad unrealistic, the grave marker, but it hammers home the permadeath thing. In the future, they could even add multiplayer support to see other peoples graves...but that's something else.

Quicksaving..I don't know. Maybe through the use of some kind of item, but even then, you're talking going into arcadey territory "insert coin" type gameplay. The game gets kind of jokey towards the end when you're plated in full metal and wielding a deathpole that keeps everything three meters aways at all times...imagine what will happen when crossbows and such get added...people would just quicksave, fire a bolt, and then reload if it doesn't score a headshot...assuming that's how they'd work (big, slow, nasty and powerful, you'll likely only get one shot off before dropping it and using a sword for the rest of the fight) it;d kinda work against it somewhat, right?

That's purely conjecture by the way I dunno, just thinking ahead. Memories of S.T.A.L.K.E.R being basically a Prince of Persia type thing in that you could quicksave and quickload at will very rapidly until you got pretty much "perfect omnipotent play" or something.

[Gheist]

Yay another one of these topics. Just add to the other one and stop making the same topic over and over maybe? Or read the FAQ would be even better.

[ruolbu]

Originally posted by TJB:

I know your stance on permadeath, but honestly, you are simply making the game more annoying to play for those of us who want to save manually

Works as intended.

Seriously, having a design aspect that discourages a certain behaviour is quite normal. Most people don't want to manually manage their saves all the time. Not allowing quicksaves makes some of them play more carefully because they want to stay in the game. That's the experience the devs want to encourage.
Enabling quicksaves will seduce a lot of players and encourage a trial and error style of playing. That is an experience the devs do not want to build.

Your position of being annoyed by the extra work you have to invest to manage your saves is just a byproduct. Sucks to be you, but that's it. In this respect the games cleary works as the devs want it to work.

[drunkenvash]

a previously drawn map is good enough for me.