Zweihander is actually overpowered

[SuperPinger]

Somebody made a discussion about how Zweihanders (Greatswords) were op. I agreed so much I decided to make my own discussion to bring some more attention. So, here we go:

1) Faster than any other weapon utilized by masters (makes sense tho)
2) Usually deals more damage than a poleaxe, can even sometimes deal more than a halberd
3) Like all other swords, can deal significant damage no matter the point of connection

So, even though it is quite expensive, I still think it's quite op since it is really fast and for some reason deals with plate armor VERY well. It's a bit shorter than polearms, but it doesn't really make a difference because you can deal damage with the whole blade, not one point, so you just go to almost point blank and start beating them. It's especially annoying to see it dealing a lot of damage while moving quite slowly, almost seems like a bug to me.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Swords always seem OP because they are easy to use, especially for beginners. That being said, a skilled player using axes/maces can perform better than one using swords, though this obviously depends on the target's armour as well.

[SuperPinger]

Yeah. I also decided to watch some master frays without interfering, zweihander guys tend to be the last ones standing much more often.

[MindSliver]

If you really want to kill things you skip the sword and go straight for the pole hammer. It takes more skill but is WAY more potent when you know how to line that head up with it's target.

[SuperPinger]

Originally posted by MindSliver:

If you really want to kill things you skip the sword and go straight for the pole hammer. It takes more skill but is WAY more potent when you know how to line that head up with it's target.

I use halberd and feel fine. Never used greatsword since I think it's a noob weapon.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by SuperPinger:

Yeah. I also decided to watch some master frays without interfering, zweihander guys tend to be the last ones standing much more often.

So the way the AI behave means they are better with the 'zweihander'. It still doesn't mean they are actually better than other weapons. AI have fairly fixed and reactive behaviour whereas players don't, obviously, hence the reason (skilled)players have an edge over AI. I don't think you should use AI for judging whether weapons are any good. Best thing you can do is try it out yourself and practice with the weapons you want to compare. This will be different from player to player though.

[MindSliver]

Originally posted by SuperPinger:

Originally posted by MindSliver:

If you really want to kill things you skip the sword and go straight for the pole hammer. It takes more skill but is WAY more potent when you know how to line that head up with it's target.

I use halberd and feel fine. Never used greatsword since I think it's a noob weapon.

I quite like the halberd as well. You can really get some stank on it if you use it right. I use the zweihander as well but it just doesn't hit hard enough for my tastes. Mostly used in master level matches I've always felt at a disadvantage with it as it's a little shorter and a little weaker than everything else. The only advantage it has it's that it's more user friendly. But not really better in any other way.

[SuperPinger]

Well, perhaps. I've only got like 25 or something hours so I of course may be wrong.

[Dingdong09]

Warhammer imo is the most powerful - reach , AP damage, very fast LtR, super powerful overhead that's easy to curve, very good at long range guarding via thrust, hits so hard that it knocks people down half the time.

[Igthorn the Duke]

Originally posted by Diabetus Maximus:

Swords have always seem OP because they are easy to use, especially for beginners. That being said, a skilled player using axes/maces can perform better than one using swords, though this obviously depends on the target's armour as well.

Yeah, using heavier weapons can be more rewarding because of their impulse and damage. But a skilled player with sword will outperform an equally skilled player with heavier weapons. Swords are simply faster and have good range, while their impulse is not that low and allows to beat armored opponents quite easily. I personally do not think this is bad, bacause I love swords. Still, their damage could me slightly decreased

[SuperPinger]

Originally posted by Dingdong09:

Warhammer imo is the most powerful - reach , AP damage, very fast LtR, super powerful overhead that's easy to curve, very good at long range guarding via thrust, hits so hard that it knocks people down half the time.

It has quite small connection point compared to other master weapons and is not really that fast tbh, especially if you don't have certain perks trained.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by Igthorn the Duke:

But a skilled player with sword will outperform an equally skilled player with heavier weapons. Swords are simply faster and have good range, while their impulse is not that low and allows to beat armoured opponents quite easily.

Weapons with heads(axes/maces) will perform better due to having several benefits over swords. They are as follows: sort of 'hook effect' able to drag your opponents or even throw them to the ground, ability to reach around shields/guards and a much higher chance of knocking an opponent off-balance due to the majority of the weight being concentrated right at the end of the weapon. That being said the windup generally accelerates slightly slower than swords(most noticeably if attacking statically as opposed to dynamically with the entire body) and of course the damage area is a lot smaller though that shouldn't be a problem for proficient players.

[Igthorn the Duke]

Originally posted by Diabetus Maximus:

Weapons with heads(axes/maces) will perform better due to having several benefits over swords. They are as follows: sort of 'hook effect' able to drag your opponents or even throw them to the ground, ability to reach around shields/guards and a much higher chance of knocking an opponent off-balance due to the majority of the weight being concentrated right at the end of the weapon. That being said the windup generally accelerates slightly slower than swords(most noticeably if attacking statically as opposed to dynamically with the entire body) and of course the damage area is a lot smaller though that shouldn't be a problem for proficient players.

The thing is, swords can negate most of these advantages of the weapons with heads because they are faster. An attack by a slow weapon can always be interrupted by a faster weapon, provided they are of the - more or less - same range. To clarify, I am discussing a hypothetical situation. Of course, against the AI it is more interesting - for me at least - to use heavy crushing weapons, and once you figure out how the AI works, heavy weapons can be used very effectively.
But a faster weapon will always have an advantage over a slower one in multiplayer, for example.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by Igthorn the Duke:

The thing is, swords can negate most of these advantages of the weapons with heads because they are faster. An attack by a slow weapon can always be interrupted by a faster weapon, provided they are of the - more or less - same range. To clarify, I am discussing a hypothetical situation. Of course, against the AI it is more interesting - for me at least - to use heavy crushing weapons, and once you figure out how the AI works, heavy weapons can be used very effectively.
But a faster weapon will always have an advantage over a slower one in multiplayer, for example.

Ah, in multiplayer. That's a different story and remains to be seen. There are undoubtedly counter-tactics if one would face a sword in PvP. One could simply dodge out of the way while swinging against aggressive opponents or hit around their guard against defensive opponents, to name but 2 basic examples. Swords are predictable so dealing with them shouldn't be difficult. Axes/maces on the other hand...depends who's wielding them.

Another thing to note is that due to the sword's weight being spread out, a skill like Security will be much more effective against them(being able to attack while taking a weaker hit).

[Konrax]

I feel like the face stab option available to pointy weapons is being missed completely here.

A stab to the face can do big damage at a long range, that can be fast as well.

This is why the short spear is a very real master level weapon when used with another weapon/shield.

[SuperPinger]

Originally posted by Konrax:

I feel like the face stab option available to pointy weapons is being missed completely here.

A stab to the face can do big damage at a long range, that can be fast as well.

This is why the short spear is a very real master level weapon when used with another weapon/shield.

I don't think you can't face stab with a sword