Unable to (reliably) parry or block thrusts. Combat becoming boring as a result

[wayne]

Characters are seemingly unable to deal with thrusts, and this really limits my options in combat.

Instead, I'm essentially forced to bait out swings and counter attack, and at that point it doesn't matter which swing I use. This causes most fights to play out the same, unless I want to take unecessary risks for the sake of mixing things up.

If I were able to reliably deal with thrusts, I could stay in close and attempt more parries and ripostes. I'd have more options and the pace of combat would improve.

[wayne]

Perhaps if there were less control over the release/windup state when thrusting, side-stepping would be more reliable. Right now it seems you are too easily tracked.

[J. Bruh]

Are you having trouble with your character thrusting, or the AI using thrusts against you? I haven't seen any issues with it really, if anything it's super effective against the AI, but they don't use it to some magnificent degree.

[UR|Dialetheia]

I have to (somewhat) agree. Thrusts are, indeed, difficult to parry. The AI will be eventually taught how to do it reliably, which leaves the player. Now, it used to be that thrusts were ridiculously slow and thus the AI couldn't use them to any effect(because the player could seem them a mile away), now both the thrusts and AI are better.

Luckily, given how Exanima simulation seems to emergently mirror real life(in some aspects), we can get pointers from HEMA. When being thrust at, if you can't just entirely get out of the way, step diagonally away from the opponents lead weapon arm and towards the opponent's center line, while rotating your character to face the thrust vector. Thus you will: dash your shoulder into their center mass, most likely unbalancing them; possibly bind their weapon to activate riposte; avoid most of the damage, even if some bit of their weapon clips you on forearms/elbow.

Hope this helps

[wayne]

Both ways, J. It's just too effective.

And yea, my hope is that thrusting is recognized as somewhat of an issue that the AI needs to be improved to deal with.

[J. Bruh]

Originally posted by wayne:

Both ways, J. It's just too effective.

And yea, my hope is that thrusting is recognized as somewhat of an issue that the AI needs to be improved to deal with.

Idk, I haven't felt the wrath to be honest. The AI seems to under-utilize thrusting to me, but you're right, it certainly is powerful in the hands of a player. Since the update I've almost exclusively used Spear/Shield and you can easily kill Master/Master enemies in <10 hits.

[Solinarius☕]

The only reliable method for parrying thrusts (that I've practiced) is to sweep left with your weapon as your character reacts to the attack. It can make a good opening for a riposte too.

[UR|Dialetheia]

Originally posted by Solinarius:

The only reliable method for parrying thrusts (that I've practiced) is to sweep left with your weapon as your character reacts to the attack. It can make a good opening for a riposte too.

Completely unrelated, but we're still waiting for MOAR videos :)

[Mtcheeeew]

Solinarious is correct,sweeping your weapon with the cursor to the left as your character starts to block allows you to parry the thrust away while putting you in the perfect position to activate a back hand riposte.

[Crackpunch]

You can step out of the way, position yourself so that thrusting isn't an option, or use a shield. The only change that spears need is to be adept weapons instead of novice weapons.

[Lane]

Originally posted by wayne:

Characters are seemingly unable to deal with thrusts, and this really limits my options in combat.

Instead, I'm essentially forced to bait out swings and counter attack, and at that point it doesn't matter which swing I use. This causes most fights to play out the same, unless I want to take unecessary risks for the sake of mixing things up.

If I were able to reliably deal with thrusts, I could stay in close and attempt more parries and ripostes. I'd have more options and the pace of combat would improve.

Here's a tip. Shield and Short spear. Only use thrusts. You beat the game.

[wayne]

That's the problem!

[Riviia]

Thrusts are op imo, I only use the new short spear for thrusting and it's easy mode. Using shields is disappointing because you take stamina damage when your shield bar is low but the AI don't seem to follow this rule.

[Wenzel]

Just another opinion/remark here. The basic problem with fencing games (well, there are not many...) seems to be that they're often designed around wide sweeps and swings. In reality, you would not see them that often. Firstly, they would leave you out of breath after a few seconds (especially when swinging those polehammers, lol), secondly, most weapons defend by "deflecting" the opponents weapon, not "blocking" it, which in turn requires the weapon to be pointing at the enemy at all times. In EXANIMA too, the defensive moves of the weapon-arm seem to be designed in a way to "block" incoming swings from the sides, not thrusts at the body. At least that's my personal impression. But then you also got that thrust attack, which is the most interesting and flexible of all attacks in the game. It cannot be blocked, it would need to be deflected:

You would seek to establish a bind with the opponen'ts weapon, deflect it (to an angle so that it doesn't hit you) by using leverage (whose grip is closer to the point of weapon-binding?*), and then move in for the strike. In order to establish a bind, you need to have your weapon between you and your opponent, not somewhere at your side charging up for a swing.

Now, I fully understand that deflection is an incredibly complicated process, involving leverage, the rotation of individual joints, etc. and cannot be simulated in a game. But it just helps to explain the problem.

What would be totally awesome against thrusts is a defensive motion of deflection, rather than blocking. You would hold your weapon out in front of you, establish contact with the opponents weapon and move it sideways. Essentially some way of allowing the player to hold out his weapon to his front, with stiff/strong arms (so that an incoming weapon can be swiped aside), and very flexibly (so that you can move the weapon around very fast).

Some weapons should be prime examples of deflection - especially swords and spears: they have decent length/range and a fast-moving tip that allows you to establish a bind with the opponent's weapon early on, they have great leverage the closer the enemy weapon gets, and they have a tip, so you can go directly switch from deflection to strike. You could also distinguish between the one- and tow-handed spear, the latter bering stronger when it comes to leverage (--> more power needed to deflect it away from your body). Other weapons are not suited for deflection at all (maces, hammers, etc) and indeed only make sense in some specific scenarios (full armor, from horseback). Bucklers in particular would be held out in front, away from your body to increase the angle at which the opponent's weapon gets deflected (https://talhoffer.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/di-grassi.jpg?w=268&h=300). I feel that two-handed swords in particular act more like super fast maces in the game right now. They should be light and primarily used in thrusting motions or short swings that function primarily by cutting, not by "chopping"/impact. The tip even of a huge two-handed sword is light.

* In early modern german fencing manuals, the parts of a sword's blade are named accordingly: strength (Stärke) for the part close to the grip, where you would have good leverage, and "weakness" (Schwäche) for the part farther away.