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I prefer thrusting only when fighting against big shields. Apart from that its situation-depended
Also arena practice hasnt the best enemy AI.
Aiming at a good spot while thrusting does allways more damage.
And theres a skill which make you blocking while slashing also.
Only OP thing imo is Pitchfork and Kite Shield
this. If you additionally max out the shield skills and learn how to put the force of the forward step into a thrust, you're practically impervious and almost everything short of plate-armored knights (and large enemies who can power through the shield) dies in a couple hits. It's kind of ridiculous in how easy the game becomes from that point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS0CUTHQHhs
It certainly looks a lot snappier in the above video
Regarding said changes.
Another tactic I found working well with thrust spam is ... well ... thrusting oneself onto the enemy.
Let me explain:
Pick a dagger or a sword, and a shield.
Max height character a must, rest to your liking.
Hug the enemy, just go forward the second they ready an attack that is not a thrust; do this whilst thrusting, move towards their attacking hand or hug their body, this should keep you away from their weapon's sweet spot and mess with their hand's physics.
Maybe even stagger them if you're heavy.
The second they try to go back and queue an attack, step forward and thrust like mentioned above. Stay in sync with their movement and thrust when they try to make some room. Leave little space for you to accelerate and thrust.
Keep track of where their weapon is so you can move towards them accordingly (the shaft mostly or hand).
Back away if you loose sync and look for an another opening.
Its a bit trickier and requires skill; mainly spacing and reading the enemy. But nowhere as demanding as parrying and counter-attacking. Yet its just as effective.
Against an enemy with a polearm this technique is actually funny; because there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. The sweet spot is far, and the weapon is long.
Enemies with shorter weapons are quite risky when you are poorly armored, but a big shield or even medium armor minimize the risk.
Also, any attack the comes at the direction of your shield is basically a free hit for you.
About zombie AI:
Regular thrust spamming with light encumbrance and dancing back makes them a no-brainer. They attack, step back, thrust + forward, back away, repeat.
I killed everything on the 1st level doing this + regular thrust spam, started loosing afterwards only due to encumbrance that I didn't notice.
Side note:
I hope this doesn't sound like i'm talking like I know what I'm doing 100%. I just really like this game and I like constructive criticism, giving and taking alike.
With respect, that's a bad idea. The main strength of thrusts is that they're *supposed* to be swift to execute, and surprising. Otherwise, they'd be trivial to avoid - a simple matter of stepping to the side. As it is now, the overdone windups for all the attacks already borders on the absurd. Further slowing down the combat would only worsen the situation, distancing the experience from the physics based reality simulation which, as I understand it, was supposed to be the main idea of the game.
What some here call "spam" is how fights in melee combat were actually conducted, and won. Effective use of a spear, for example, calls for assailing your opponent with a series of rapid thrusts, recalls, and repeats, from many different origins, so as to overwhelm their defenses - not to draw back a spear, yell "harrguugh," and lunge forward with a clumsy, stumbling stab with an artificial cooldown which presents a nice, safe "punishment' window for "balance" purposes. If Exanima wants to change tack and go down that route, that's fine - it's its own game, and game-isms can serve, depending. But if that's the case, then definitely discard any notion of realism, or adherence to real-world physics, because that's not how thrusting weapons have *ever* been used, because what's happening there is not physics, but paper-rock-scissors mechanics band-aiding the mechanics and making them more resemble a action-reaction game rather than a physics-driven simulation.
"Spam" is a really silly term, one with obvious pejorative implications, but is ultimately meaningless. Am I "spamming" a submachine gun when I hold the trigger for full-auto, and achieving the weapon's primary purpose of delivering a high volume of fire? If the issue is that doing one thing over and over and over again is too effective, simply because the doing of it shuts down all retaliatory actions and effectively "wins" the game through sheer volume of use, then yes, there's a case to be made against it. That's not how to win a melee contest. You will not automatically win a fight just because you poke with a spear or a sword over and over again. But there's no evidence that this is an issue in Exanima. Stabbing is effective, but it *should* be. In fact, it should be far more effective than smacking someone wearing plate with an edged sword, which in Exanima results in *way* more damage than should be remotely possible.
There's also the issue, which was mentioned above, that thrusts seem more effective compared to swings because they're just straight-up more accurate and controllable. The problem is that swings are still clumsy and unrefined. Not to mention, the weird implementation of autoblocking means that AI isn't as effective at stopping thrusts. Again, this does not mean that thrusts as they are, are the problem.
In fact, there's nothing "OP" about thrusts as they are now. The only real problem with them is that the frames where damage is applied seem to be weird, and off. That's probably why thrusts "seem" strange, or over-effective, because as it is now, you're able to deliver the full damage of the strike seemingly before the point where effective force transfer should occur - as in, before full extension of the blow. Once, I executed a sword thrust which struck and staggered my opponent while my character's arm was still drawn close to the body...before the extension of the thrust had ever begun. They are definitely really wonky, and if anything needs to be done, it's correcting issues like that.
Artificially slowing everything down is a particularly bad band-aid. Mechanics that punish endless swinging, stabbing, or lunging are all well and good, because believe it or not, people in real life aren't slashing, stabbing, or lunging machines, but just straight up slowing the attack is just...bad.
I'd like to see some sort of stability mechanic. Simple stamina systems like those seen in Dark Souls, where X attack consumes Y stamina points, are almost always too gamey and easily exploited. For example, sit back, shield up, and let the enemy wail away, run out of stamina, and then be completely helpless. This is silly. But a stability mechanic wherein constantly attacking without pausing weakens your character's core, leading to overextension, would be a good addition, if potentially overcomplicated to develop.
By overextension, I mean, resetting from an attack state might become less reliable, less quick to occur, leaving you more open as you do it. Attacks made against you are more likely to bypass your defenses, stagger you, or knock you down. You become more and more likely to stumble or lose your footing as you attempt to move while pressing your attack. Things like this.
This actually mirrors how stamina works in real-life combat. You may notice how a fighter focused entirely on overwhelming their opponent's defense through constant striking or repetition is himself more and more less likely to react defensively. All their effort, focus, and energy is diverted to attacking, and less of those resources go to footwork and defense.
So basically, stop attacking for a bit, catch your breath, and let your character start thinking some and getting their focus back, or your attack, your movement, *and* your defense can all become compromised.
Sorry, rant over. It's just that, dealing with "spam" should be a more thoughtful process than just arbitrarily slowing things down. The characters are already sluggish enough as is, perhaps comically so.
They're zombies. they're intentionally not skilled in melee. This does not apply in later areas of the game. It's like bragging that you can get through the first level in Doom using only the pistol, no offense.
I don't think I have any problem with thrusts as they are except that my character doesn't seem to try and defend himself against them basically at all. Whenever I step into a novice fight against a spear user I'm certain that at some point in the fight they'll thrust at me and my guy will just stand there and take it without making any effort to put their point off line. and inevitably that's exactly what happens.