Please fix daggers

[Greytwulf]

As a medieval enthusiast and all around melee fanatic, i am in love with Exanima Arena mode, and sometime i am going to sit down and write all of my thoughts about it, but for now: Daggers.

Again, im really enjoying this combat, and knew right away this would take some time to master before feeling godlike. Now i do feel godlike, i am very comfortable in any situation, in any Rank.
Aside from a few maps with bad light or uneven terrain there is not a lot anymore that makes me worried\makes me feel uneasy.

But there is one thing: Daggers. And it seems i am not the only one to notice this. Losing a char your first couple times, is called learning curves, and after that, you dont care about perma death. You get to keep your gear, and now that you know how to fight, it really only takes a matter of hours to get back to Expert/Master.

When your seemingly invincible Master decides to play a Adapt match, full 20\20 exceptional gear, is afraid of a guy with a dagger, something is wrong. And im right to be terrified of Daggers, my fully armed master in exceptional chainmail ( you know the the stuff thats really good againt slash ) got 2 shotted...by a dagger. You get a lil salty. If i wasnt wearing a helm and got face stabbed that would be fine. When daggers to the body do more than swords/axes something is off.

Is there a reason that Daggers seem to do pierce? it really makes no sense that you can be hit by axes, poleaxes, maces, 2h swords, 1h swords, and the weapon that seems to do the most fatal damage ( red damage ) is daggers. really? ive taken solid morningstar hits that dont do as much red.

TLDR: my fully armed war worn veteren with thousands of scars earned from surviving battles just got 2 shotted by a lil dagger.

[warmhotself]

I don't think it's as severe as you are making out. When daggers were introduced I got maimed a few times, but that was mainly due to the speed of the slashes.

In terms of realism, a dagger would historically have been used to cut into gaps in armour, so full plate might not protect you as well as it would from a mace or other blunt crusher.

[thommix777]

They aren't that difficult, sounds more like not understanding how armor and damages actually work.
killing enemies in couple hits with almost any weapon isn't that hard either once you learn to put some momentum in the swing instead of standing still. It isn't just daggers, go test Maul or bardiche and watch the enemies fly and die.

[angrytrex]

I never have any luck with daggers when I attempt to use them. Fortunately neither do my opponents. I've lost a few people to daggers in the past, but no more than any other weapon. The spiked club has always been my #1 new character killer.

I think one of the reasons they seem more effective is the short length means the average swing will probably land higher on the body than the longer weapons (read all of the past threads complaining about always hitting the thigh when using a longer 1h weapon). The tier they are used at also contribues being as how they are aspirant weapon and you'll be less armored with no closed helmets

[Greytwulf]

My comments are not about function but damage values, my complaints are not about how to deal with daggers, its simple, you keep them at a distence. But your timing can only be perfect for so long eventually you will get knicked every now and then, no matter the weapon. Terrain, or tripping over a body at the wrong time, these things happen. My question is: why does getting knicked by a dagger hurt the most.

Ive done a couple tests now by pressing tab and letting them land a shot, if you are well protected a lot of swings do mostly stamina damage.

Im not talking about stabs either, i find it odd that a swing from a dagger will consistently do more red fatal damage to me than a swing from a sword. Both weapons swing damage are dealing slash and at adapt you can be fairly well protected from various weapons that deal slash damage. I cant seem to find it now, but someone else has mentioned this in discussions, i simply cant remember what the result of the disscussion was.

[thommix777]

Its damage values are just fine in my opinion, as we both tried to tell you how it is easily misinterpreted by looking at the game. Daggers don't do just slash, they have thrust attack too...

If you are well protected, about no weapon does permanent damage. No difference between daggers and some other weapon.

With just simple swing, i've never seen daggers really hurt, a cleaver hurts much,much more. Unless it got past armor, but that hurts with all the weapons.

Couple tests really tell you nothing, as there's more happening than just the simple hit and damage.

No problems understanding what you were saying. Damage is fine. You seem to be just remembering the few hits that it got through and really hurt, without a larger datapool.

[kenny10_25]

Yeah the damage of daggers is pretty damn good. Definitely outshines every other aspirant weapons.
If there should be a balancing to be made it would be to put daggers least one rank above.
The weapon itself however, I feel is balanced and reasonable. Though the damage is great, it is also very short and landing hits reliably does take skill. Not to mention the length also affects its ability to block.

[Rolly]

You can usually kill dagger holders before they can even reach you.

[thommix777]

Originally posted by kenny10_25:

Yeah the damage of daggers is pretty damn good. Definitely outshines every other aspirant weapons.
If there should be a balancing to be made it would be to put daggers least one rank above.
The weapon itself however, I feel is balanced and reasonable. Though the damage is great, it is also very short and landing hits reliably does take skill. Not to mention the length also affects its ability to block.

No, it really doesn't outshine every aspirant-weapon, that is just a totally false statement. Really test them out properly.
Try the inept-level SHARP cleaver. That one is a beast and does way more damage than the dagger.

The weapons are pretty damn well balanced, just getting bit too much stuck yet.

[kenny10_25]

Originally posted by thommix777:

Originally posted by kenny10_25:

Yeah the damage of daggers is pretty damn good. Definitely outshines every other aspirant weapons.
If there should be a balancing to be made it would be to put daggers least one rank above.
The weapon itself however, I feel is balanced and reasonable. Though the damage is great, it is also very short and landing hits reliably does take skill. Not to mention the length also affects its ability to block.

No, it really doesn't outshine every aspirant-weapon, that is just a totally false statement. Really test them out properly.
Try the inept-level SHARP cleaver. That one is a beast and does way more damage than the dagger.

The weapons are pretty damn well balanced, just getting bit too much stuck yet.

The cleaver is easier to use, but might not do as much damage, at least on thrusting, which is where the dagger truly shines. I came across a special dagger that looks thinner than the simple dagger and it has 3,5-4 points of piecing damage. Two to three good thrusts kill any aspirant opponents outright.

[GigaChrixt]

there's 3 daggers. theres a broad dagger for slashing and thrusting, theres a dirk shaped like a sai that's for thrusting and there is a ornate dagger on level 5 of the dugeon that has an extra point in slash.

all the daggers defeat chain, leather, and clothes when they are thrusted. they dont do much damage while slashing unless they hit an unarmored spot.

i think the daggers are pretty balanced. and yeah they can ruin your day at the aspirant level because your armor is mostly cloth and padded cloth

[thommix777]

Originally posted by kenny10_25:

Originally posted by thommix777:

No, it really doesn't outshine every aspirant-weapon, that is just a totally false statement. Really test them out properly.
Try the inept-level SHARP cleaver. That one is a beast and does way more damage than the dagger.

The weapons are pretty damn well balanced, just getting bit too much stuck yet.

The cleaver is easier to use, but might not do as much damage, at least on thrusting, which is where the dagger truly shines. I came across a special dagger that looks thinner than the simple dagger and it has 3,5-4 points of piecing damage. Two to three good thrusts kill any aspirant opponents outright.

Yeah, never said to thrust with the cleaver,that would be just silly.
The op was actually talking about the swings of the dagger,further down the thread, which doesn't do any more damage than others, simple cleaver does way more.
Thrusts with dagger are deadly and in line with other weapons too.

[angrytrex]

If you're referring to fighting against daggers, the simple answer use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

If you're referring to fightin gwith daggers, the simple answer is also to use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

Daggers are balanced quite nicely I believe.

[kenny10_25]

Originally posted by angrytrex:

If you're referring to fighting against daggers, the simple answer use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

If you're referring to fightin gwith daggers, the simple answer is also to use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

Daggers are balanced quite nicely I believe.

Sir, daggers are freaking awesome if you use them right! All the "better" weapons you listed are safer and easier to use. A dagger simply requires more foot work as parrying with one sucks. But the stabby stabby, man...so satisfying.

[angrytrex]

Originally posted by kenny10_25:

Originally posted by angrytrex:

If you're referring to fighting against daggers, the simple answer use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

If you're referring to fightin gwith daggers, the simple answer is also to use a better weapon such as the Iron bar, metal shod quarter staff, sharp cleaver or many others.

Daggers are balanced quite nicely I believe.

Sir, daggers are freaking awesome if you use them right! All the "better" weapons you listed are safer and easier to use. A dagger simply requires more foot work as parrying with one sucks. But the stabby stabby, man...so satisfying.

Can't refute that, so i'll just club you with an iron bar

[kenny10_25]

Originally posted by angrytrex:

Originally posted by kenny10_25:

Sir, daggers are freaking awesome if you use them right! All the "better" weapons you listed are safer and easier to use. A dagger simply requires more foot work as parrying with one sucks. But the stabby stabby, man...so satisfying.

Can't refute that, so i'll just club you with an iron bar

And I will sidestep that ♥♥♥♥ and shank your guts!
...good lord devs, you seeing this? This is proof multiplaying must happan asap!