Ending

[Shylaar]

So... What? We get "I'll explain everything later", and then it ends. No resolution, no closure, nothing outside of a video of human Ida sending a text of the numbers which I never actually understood the purpose of (outside of their repeatedly stated importance).

It highlighted some articles in the yurt as well, but I already read all of those, so I don't think those are the trigger to an extended ending or anything. Anyone care to weigh in?

[rutra80]

Ugh I feel so stupid after this game. Authors are probably sitting there laughing. I can't wait the Cradle Story Guide website, just like the one about Half-Life.
BTW, do you remember that Ida in the yurt is an illegal copy? A legal one is living in Geneva IIRC.

[Wisnoskij]

Originally posted by rutra80:

BTW, do you remember that Ida in the yurt is an illegal copy? A legal one is living in Geneva IIRC.

Ya, apparenatlly the counsious transfer is actaully just a copy, plus they kill the original. And apparenatlly they do not need the whole show and dance they talk about, as she was MIA, pressumed destroyed, so they just made a new one from a backup copy.

[wrOngplanet]

Originally posted by Wisnoskij:

Ya, apparenatlly the counsious transfer is actaully just a copy, plus they kill the original.

It sucks to be the original then :P

Btw, great thread, obviously I missed at least half the story even though I completed one playthrough. I'm impressed and jealous of the observational and deducive skills shown here!

I still liked the ending though, and at least I got that about 1.21 GW from lightning equals some timey wimey stuff :D

[Shred]

Technically, both are originals.

[Licopolis]

Thanks to the one who had the nature of 3513 disclosed.
There's the other ethical question then, if the constant calculated properly, would that stop scientists from further experimenting on consciousness' transport?

[Linniz]

As a piece of science fiction, Cradle's Science is really wishy-washy. All good sifi has a sound scientific bases, and if they wish to include "magic" with "sifi" they have to treat them realistically (starwars is a good example between spaceships and magic powers) (Also why all sifi shows and movies have a science adviser)

Lets see what science in Cradle did not make sense, thus causing the story to become infested with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

1.Time travel - This is 2015 not 1920s anymore, we have had an understanding of Time and what would happen with time travel causality for a while now. Look at "Interstellar", they have it right. Cradle has it wrong. Both story basically end with: "because time travel!" But one is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the other makes sense.


2. M-Body Digital Personas - They went trough great lengths to address how living in a m-body was not as cozy as a flesh body, so why not just shutdown and "sleep" until everything blows over?

If we were to say society still needs to support those that would fix the world, then there would be no need for "cities" or anything. Wouldn't the populace just simply spend most of their time "sleeping"? Only occasionally supporting the scientists and engineers via services and morally? Seems like alot of unnecessary "suffering"

If say people still wished to live their lives, but unless people got incredibly stupid, but even to the player who only got a tiny glimpse of "Transferring" it becomes clear that people are simply being copied not transferred, while their real self gets killed so to create to the illusion to others and the new "self" that it was an actual transfer of consciousness. It does not take a smart person to realize that is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I mean, its clear there is a time where both individual separate personas are created (via the story with the child talking to himself and the strict procedure of eye locking non moving)
People would realize this real quick and not wish to be killed after making a copy of himself for the future preservation of humanity. Its like them saying, donate your genetic copy so we can continue the human race, but hey, let us kill you and lie about it so more people are inclined to do it...

The whole thing is frackin backwards. Real scientist and politicians would simply say: "let us copy your minds so humanity exists after you all died of the disease." Pretty sure majority of people would be okay with it. No need to kill and lie about it.

3. Nervous system creating "passium" or what not. - This is basically venturing into the magic side, like "Medioclorines" or whatnot from Starwars. Except, its not made by living beings, but by machines with digital minds! How? Why? Don't worry about that, because machines with magic is cool! And a scientist said so in an article!
-No!, lets compare it with something similar, the warhammer 40k universe "magic science"
In 40k machines have "souls" and can manifest themselves by mending their wounds magically, or even aiding its user in slight ways. How does this work? Because there is an underlying dimension of the universe where a sentient mind can bend reality, and magic happens when this extra dimension gains enough energy to manifest into reality. Thus machines have "souls" simply because enough people believe it to be so. (Btw even this is inspired by real science - quantum physics)

There is logic in this, and the viewer or player can easily imagine possibilities in this world, and their own stories. This creates depth, throwing in random sifi tibits creates pretentious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.


There is a few other ones but I don't want to start picking on small details.

Cradle is really trying to pull an social-science in an post-idealistic-apocalyptic world story, and it really feels similar to Assassin's Creed. While the story and script is quite good, and the art is excellent, the world simply don't make much sense when you think about it, thus making us feel like we are still missing crucial information. Well that information would be the lore of how "technology" "magic" really works and what rules they follow in your world.



Also what is up with that ending video, cringe worthy bad. UGH.

[V10lator]

Originally posted by Xaito:

The sword was just a holographic toy - the grip was real, the blade was a holograph.

That's what Ida says, yes, but the game reflects a different story: The sword is the only weapon able to kill the black spirits. In fact it's the only weapon in the game at all! So is it really just a toy?

While the interaction of the kids seems to have been very important in some way, the sword itself was not in my opinion.

Ever noted that the black spirits do some kind of mini explosion when you kill (touch) them with the sword?

The withch head was just a stage prop for the games the kids were made to play. They collected m-body parts, assembled a female m-body heroine who fought off the evil witch. Ida mentions that in one of her recollections.

Still no need for the head to spill out black smoke. This smoke looks very similar to the black spirits and while I'm not 100% sure I think some time I was standing right in front of the head and the black smoke coming out damaged me.

[Borg Cube]

All in all, game had potential, my girlfriend and i were pissed when it ended.

[rutra80]

The black whirlwinds are made of toxin / bitter passium I guess? Exploding is the way these spirits cease to be, it's enough to leave them alone for a while and they blow up on their own (reaching critical mass from accumulating player's fear?).
Since the sword makes them explode, perhaps it made the bitter passium explode in the boy's heart, even if the amount of it was within norms (doubtfully, as he seen and could communicate with his original self during transfer which includes killing of original body - that had to be a traumatic experience). Maybe it was deliberately done? To blow up this place of children mass murder under cover of amusement park / clinic (abortion clinics ring the bell).
The black fumes excreting from the witch are the same toxin / bitter passium I guess. It gathers there as she is an avatar of the ugly, bad emotions. Treating it with the sword should send the whole place skyrocketing.

[rutra80]

This game doesn't seem to be as much about the ending, as about the trip itself (a trip to the roots, hence the cradle) - it's full of philosophical messages and symbolism, like:

A sound mind in a sound body. And vice-versa. That's why synchronizer is needed.

When you bring the soul down to electronic medium, emotions manifest physically too, as passium. Messing with these matters brings lots of misery (careful with that axe, Eugene).
Sweet passium represents beautiful, positive emotions. It's the most valuable resource.
Bitter passium represents the ugly, negative emotions. Accumulate this toxin and ...BOOM!

People want to quantify everything, even the worth of a human being (HQ). When you have a number you can start to collect as you collect money (how many pretty "friends" / decorations did you collect on facebook?).
We live in the world of total communication, but washed out of true feelings. Don't only keep talking. Keep feeling. When there's no emotions, even the bad ones are better.

Telepathy is a sibling of love. When you truly love someone, you know what he/she thinks. This seems to be increasingly rare phenomenon indeed.

We're on a good way to make future generations sick of us. Or go extinct whatsoever.
An offspring / children are the top priority good of our civilisation to preserve.

Isn't the eagle a symbol of your guardian angel? Feed him well and take good care of it, it will serve you well.

etc.

Good old eastern values. I love this game.

[Linniz]

Too much force feeding of ideals.

True eastern ideals are:
Nothing is Evil
Nothing is Good
Everything is Nature.
Everything has both sides.


also

Love the young
Respect the old
and Human equality of birth (abolished idea hereditary nobility from Central Asia region for than 1000 years with kings choosing other families instead own child as heir)


The famous yin and yang symbol means one has both good and bad, and even good has bad and bad has good, thusly there is no good or bad.

This game certainly dont give that feeling, It's pretty conformist modern world ideals to me.
Stuff like:
Technology is harmful!
Nature is good!
Power is in the people's hands!
Humans will destory themselves!

[PenniCash]

I'm just throwing this up here because I don't see it mentioned: Petard did a playthrough and Warstar posted a brilliant theory that involves looking at stories involving Buddah and Shiva as well as quantum theory (it explains why 3515 is important!).

While I can't get my computer to play the game, I am still incredibly interested in the story and am watching many playthroughs to try to put it together. I won't claim Warstar's theory (he said he did six hours of reading for it!), but I direct you to his thoughts in the comments of Petrad's part six of his playthrough: https://youtu.be/kj2G3vJHpbc

[rutra80]

Originally posted by Linniz:

Too much force feeding of ideals.

True eastern ideals are:
...

You're talking about asian ideals, I'm talking about eastern Europe ideals of Slavs - that's who authors are.

[Call me daddy]

I found a comment on youtube by Warstar which explains pretty much everything :)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj2G3vJHpbc)

"#1: "Enebish" is a 'telepathic' transfer of Mark's consciousness after his death in Gerbera Gardens as well. He was given a new body from Buddha, one that would grow to maturity quickly because the Sphere's existence allowed (what we would call) strange events to take place, ie: rapid growth and controlled aging.
#2: descriptions and hints state that Enebish, Mark's reincarnation, was guided by Buddha himself, the first one being 'brought forth by a golden eagle', while the others are a little bit difficult for me to explain without going into Dharma texts.
#3: Enebish's strange growth is reminiscent of many tales in the various early Buddhist texts. Not all of the gods or demi-gods grew rapidly, in fact, MOST of those that did were reincarnated mortals that had suffered dishonorable or wrongful deaths, and in a few cases they were fated to change the past, present, or future.
#4: it's apparent that Ida died and was transferred as quickly as possible after the incident in Gerbera Gardens. Her main consciousness was deactivated, which is the one you interact with, while the other one, the 'standard' Ida, was activated and allowed to continue existing. The real Ida shares a telepathic bond with Mark/Enebish, which explains why she had a "deja vu" sensation (which is ALWAYS referred to as feeling sad, but pleasant, along with minor anxiety) when they first met in Gerbera Gardens, and then in her m-body.
#5: the cube puzzles don't fit on the SURFACE, but there's a very important story dealing with Buddha and Shiva that involves them playing a game with wooden squares. Which one wins the game gets to ask a favor from the other; when Buddha wins, he asks that Shiva allows him to reincarnate one of his own champions whom would eventually save his past self from completing the wrong task in order to prevent the word from "descending into darkness", which was never fully explained in the text.
#6: the Sphere also recalls a similar story where Shiva and Vishnu struck each other, and the space where their blood pooled became another world, one that they did not know. The new world eventually became dangerous, and during #5, Shiva's champion completes the wrong puzzle to close off the world, instead OPENING it fully to the real world. This refers straight back to #5.
#7: Enebish, Mark really, sent the code to the past in order to prevent the future from becoming bleak and eventually being destroyed, and it's further implied that both Ida and Mark's 'future' destinies were reset, allowing them to live normally because THIS future (the game) did not happen."

[PenniCash]

Originally posted by alica.anschuetz:

I found a comment on youtube by Warstar which explains pretty much everything :)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj2G3vJHpbc)

Yep, that's the one. Though if you go through more comments in the thread, he gives some more explanations, so I recommend going to check it out as well.