Tangle Tower

Tangle Tower

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Troy Oct 26, 2019 @ 7:46am
[SPOILERS] Unresolved plot points & evidence
These are things I cannot find satisfactory answers for at the end of the game:

  1. How Penelope arranged for Flora to hold the Inkdip feather, and swapped blood for red paint.
  2. What the Damaged Tape is actually a recording of.
  3. Why Freya knew to prepare yellow paint in order to paint the yellow bird in the lower right. Did she know that the bird will show up? If so, how?
  4. The first two entries of the Secret Diary; specifically, what "it" is from the first entry and what Soulbearer did in the second.
  5. The meaning of the Crumpled Paper, and why it is accompanied by rose petals.
  6. Why Freya finding out the secret prompted Penelope to kill her, as shown in the last entry in the Notebook.
  7. What else was burnt, besides the feather (i.e. the black buttons and red fabric).
  8. Why the Five Ambassadors came to the lake in the first place; what is significant about the last 10% of the golden beetle; what Penelope wants to get out of her quest for the family backstory.
  9. The nature of the supposed "feud" between the two families of Tangle Tower; why they moved in, considering the Remingtons first occupied this place; why the water level rose, and why the mansion was expanded (upwards).

Also, things I'm wondering:

  1. The graphs on Fifi's blackboard and the clipboard in the greenhouse are apparently related to the underground lab, but I haven't figured it out yet.
  2. Whether Penelope has knowledge of Richard Remington's dealings in the first game, and if not, how she would react to it (that the backstory she seeks is a rare animal hunting group).
  3. Whether Freya was really helping from beyond the grave, or if that hint is courtesy of the little girl from previous games.
  4. What the deal with all the eggs is.
Last edited by Troy; Oct 31, 2019 @ 2:53pm
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Showing 1-15 of 44 comments
toolshedinc Oct 27, 2019 @ 1:48pm 
Great questions, I'm looking for those answers as well ;o the only one I feel I could say something about is the "eggs" thing- I thought it had something to do with Flora perhaps, since she seems to have loved the Inkdip bird(s) so much. That's something I really want to know more about as well, Flora's great loss and the family feuding stuff like you said.

This may sound dumb, but a clearer insight into Penny/Penelope's mind would be nice, too. I was left wondering if she ever even loved Fitz at all or if that was just another part of her ruse, since there were a lot of details put into that section of the story (the whole love triangle-y vibe going on with Fitz/Penny/Poppy). How much of that was real and how much was a red herring?

I'd like to know more about Poppy's dramatic colour change as well, and why every character treats it like the most serious secret ever. I had a feeling it might have had something to do with her mother leaving, but I'm not sure of the timeline there (I had been under the impression that Primrose left early on in Poppy's life, like around 8 years old or something, and Poppy dressed in pink looked to be a teenager at least). I began to think by the end of the game that it was just meant as a meaningless red herring, but I kinda hope that's not the case :D It's a lot of fun stepping into these characters' worlds and trying to figure everything out.

I dunno, there's still a ton of questions left to be answered, your list is excellent! Here's to hoping we get some closure some day, cheers!
Last edited by toolshedinc; Oct 27, 2019 @ 1:48pm
Mikasa Oct 27, 2019 @ 2:36pm 
A few thoughts : 3. I dont think its that Freay knew the bird would come, i think the bird was already sitting there when she was painting but she didnt get to it in time.
4. "it" was a figure from Freya's nightmares (the red thing in the painting). Penelope used it as inspiration for a cape-costume thing for her Hawstawk character which probably drove Freya kind of mad, thinking it was chasing her or something.
7. that red-black costume is probably what Penelope burned cause we never see it

My own question left unanswered though was who invited detective grimoire
MC1925 Oct 28, 2019 @ 4:33am 
I have a few theories:

1. The blood could've been Penny's as it's never stated that the blood came from Freya. Penny may have filled the empty bottle she stole from Felix with her own blood.

6. I think Penny killed Freya because she discovered Penny''s plot. To find the missing family members and kill them (this is slightly implied to be her plan). Only problem is that Echo got to Richard before she did. Though Fitz's mom was named Emily Everstone, same last name as Echo. So there is a possible connection there that we're not aware of.
Last edited by MC1925; Oct 28, 2019 @ 4:33am
Nappaccino Oct 28, 2019 @ 5:49am 
These are my thoughts, bit I do hope that we get more info on these things.

3. I believe she knew the bird was there multiple times, and was attempting to paint it in so help show who the culprit is without giving it away.

4. The "It" is something to do with that big painting, the figure that Hawkshaw was based on. The 2nd part is an interesting note leading to her knowing something about the creatures.

5.I want to believe that was a red herring to throw you off penny's trail. Give a reason on "why" the bird feathers were there.

For the extra parts below:

1. I'm also curious on this one. Is this a hint for something extra in the game. Is it foreshadowing something to do with a future one? I'm however excited to find out.

2. An interesting note from previous discussions shows that Echo has a last name of everstone, the same last name of fitz's mom. This doesn't prove anything, but does open up some other ideas.

3. This is the one detail I really want to know. It was more or less confirmed that she wrote it, so was it a ghost. One potential idea I had was freya never really died, and she "faked" her death somehow. This is just a theory however, so take this with a grain of sand.

4.Something I thought about with all the eggs is, what if the research facility(before the mansion was made) was based inside of a giant egg. When you look at the snow globe of the mansion, the "mountains" are very smooth and our heroes say they are cliffs due to how smooth they are. When looking at the map in the lab, you get a view that almost gives the area an oval feel to it. Almost egg shaped. Again, this is just another theory, but this could help explain why there are so many eggs in the area.
Luk Dovahkiin Jan 26, 2020 @ 8:55pm 
who give us the crab ipad with the letter of fleya??
Troy Jan 29, 2020 @ 9:09pm 
Originally posted by Luk:
who give us the crab ipad with the letter of fleya??
Ostensibly this is Freya helping from beyond the grave, but this is not directly proven.
Frown Feb 2, 2020 @ 4:21am 
i think the note on the crab from freya is meant for fifi and poppy; i think once freya found the study, she could tell she'd seen too much and that penelope would come after her. i think it turns up when it does because fifi finishes solving the puzzle while you're recapping with sally, and leaves the soulbearer behind when she's done; she mentions in the ending that she was also pretty close to solving what happened, so arriving in the basement levels at roughly the same time makes sense. of course, she doesn't find the study because the blueprints are on a high shelf and she's the shortest member of the cast.
Space Attorney Feb 11, 2020 @ 8:15am 
Some thoughts to add to this:

1) I don't think Penelope was involved in the blood thing. Someone says at one point that the blood may have been planted to disguise the murder weapon, but I don't think Penelope would have had a chance to do that (if she could access the crime scene alone, she would have retrieved the beetle). My assumption is that holding the feather was Flora's idea, as it held emotional significance to her, and Freya chose to paint with her blood after noticing she was out of red paint. A little extreme, but her diary + Penny's testimony implies that she was likely at least a little disturbed.

2) The humming is most likely Freya's, since the tape was blank when she received it. She might have recorded it to aid herself in using the Soulbearer tablet, since we find it near the harp statue. If the other noises have any significance I can't tell.

3) I don't know much about painting, but she likely prepared the colors when she started or after the sketch was done. I'm not sure why she knew the bird would sit still the whole time, but she might have been familiar with it and known its behavior.

4) The other answers are correct; she's referring to Hawkshaw showing up seemingly right out of her nightmares. She most likely used Soulbearer to discover the combination to the harp statue the same way you did, although how she found it or how exactly it works I'm not sure.

5) I'm not sure to what extent this was a ruse. Fitz's feelings seemed genuine, if stilted, and I don't know how staging a fake love triangle helps maintain Penny's cover.

6) Penny implies that she killed the Ambassadors after being disappointed with their exploits, which is definitely a big enough secret that she'd kill again to keep it. Not sure how this squares with the events of the previous game, although the Everstone connection mentioned above is interesting.

7) Based on the materials, it's likely a prototype Hawkshaw costume.

8) I assumed the lake was artificial, and the water level was risen both to hide the research lab underwater and to increase the scope of the mystid experiments. This also accounts for the smooth lake bottom, although the giant egg theory above also explains this. I think Penny's lines at the end imply the "last 10%" of the beetle is some more concentrated or usable form of whatever substance in the water is creating mystids.

9) The other two families moved in when they married into the family, and this is what necessitated the expansions. The feud we see is likely a simple inheritance feud or a rivalry over the family members' various accomplishments, although it's hard to tell since Percival seems to be the only one taking it seriously.

I'm still trying to work out if there's anything more going on with those diagrams. It definitely feels like some sort of extra puzzle but I can't glean anything useful out of them.
Last edited by Space Attorney; Feb 11, 2020 @ 8:15am
SFBDim  [developer] Feb 22, 2020 @ 12:23am 
Wow, there are -several- completely correct answers/assumptions in Space Attorney’s post there....
Call Mar 24, 2020 @ 1:06pm 
10?)Another thing : did anyone noticed than when we get to the crab / "ghost" thing, the music of the "Little Girl" from the first game is playing ? Coincidence ? I think not!

11/How come Richard Remington looked older on the picture with th 5 Amabassadors? Is one of the creature... by any change did it gave him some kind of "Fountain of Youth" ability???

12/WHO sent the Golden Beetle... Following 11/... Is Lord Remington actually alive ? Why is there a photo of him shot in the heart?
EDIT : mmmm apparently it was Richard Remington who send the Golden Beetle - see 1st game...

13/Is the great loss mentioned about Flora Lord Remington OR Lady Remington?

14/... I still don't get how Penelope Pointer and Detective Hawkshaw can be the same person... Like... HOW??? When I interrogate one... and go immediately to the other... HOW CAN SHE CHANGE so quickly???
Last edited by Call; Mar 24, 2020 @ 1:11pm
tunasaladx Apr 25, 2020 @ 8:38am 
10) The little girl is probably connected to all of this somehow. Her appearance was never really explained in the other games. She also knew about mystids like Boggy and had red hair like Penelope and her mother; maybe she's related?

11) Maybe it's just the different art styles? Given the mystids we've already seen, I doubt any of them have a weird ability like that, especially considering that Richard was hunting mystids, not experimenting with them.

12) It sounded to me like it was another ambassador telling Richard about the "metallic insect" and their own efforts regarding it. After all, he was obsessed with Boggy for quite a while; he wasn't out looking for golden beetles. The letter is signed "F. F.", so maybe Felicia or Flint sent the insect home for research purposes. As for Lord Remington's photo, Penelope likely held a grudge, since he was the original owner of the laboratory/mansion.

13) I think the loss mentioned was Flora's bird, though it could have been her father. He was in Felix's carvings of Flora's favorite people, after all.

14) An oversight? Even after confronting Poppy about her photo, you act clueless about who's in it with everyone else, so they clearly didn't account for every possibility.

As for the "things I'm wondering" from the first post,

1) From the looks of it, there's something missing from the notes they were trying to figure out (the question mark). Otherwise, they seem to be related to each other, though I can't see any significance with only the three games we've been given so far.

2) She was almost definitely aware of his actions, and her reaction was essentially the same as with the others. She said she met all five of them, and Richard wasn't exactly subtle about his obsession with Boggy or his hunting experience. Penelope even directly states that some of the ambassadors were hunters.
Last edited by tunasaladx; Apr 25, 2020 @ 8:41am
Kefala Feb 2, 2021 @ 11:56pm 
Wow, Space Attorney and IncredibleFrown, those are great theories! That clears a lot up for me.
Kefala Feb 3, 2021 @ 12:10am 
I think the final question I had was how did Penelope make her way out of the tower before the others arrived? The door was locked from the inside, and she bumped into the Professor in the main hall as Hawkshaw. I guess the professor also claimed that he bumped into her as Penelope in the aviary too, so it is possible he lied on her behalf for both counts.
FDarkwalker Feb 9, 2021 @ 7:43am 
Hi, I just finished the game and something is bugging me about the coat rack in the lowest level, the hat and the cloak to me look a lot like Echos hat and cloak, does anyone else think this or am I just seeing things?
Watkins Sleuth Mar 29, 2021 @ 6:41pm 
I personally don't think Penelope murdered the ambassadors. I think she joined up with them, judging by her change of clothes during the finally. We know for a fact she didn't kill Richard Remington, because he was the victim of the last game.

I do think Penelope was trying to lie a fair bit about why she killed Freya because it was the will of the ambassadors. Penelope admits that Freya was about to expose the secrets of the family to try and free Flora. Flora also happens to be Richard Remington sister (she was married into the Fellow family).

It also make more sense. As one of the major plot point in the game is the fact that Penny is in a love triangle with her fiance and her cousin. And yet she doesn't do anything to harm Poppy and has the secret message inside Poppy's room stating she was about to kill Freya. Which wouldn't make sense unless she was trying to stop Poppy from doing something. My guess is leaving the tower and/or exposing the ambassadors.

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