About Toma's route.

[weddy.wanderer]

So I just finished Toma's route and.. what the hell? I mean.. I love Toma, he's my favourite and I was really really looking forward to his route, but then I played it and I'm shocked. Like, the supposedly good ending we got, feels like a bad ending. I mean, at the end Toma says he's a bad person and the MC is like "OH welllll I don't mind", and implying that there's also something wrong with her as well. I mean, this is not what you'd expect in a good ending, it's supposed to make both of the characters grow, so they could overcome their flaws, not accept them, and especially in this case, how is that even acceptable at all? He puts her in a freaking cage and she says "it wasn't that bad lol", like, how?
I really wanted to like this route, because I really do love Toma but I just feel this was so so poorly executed and kind of makes me feel the creators got lazy with this one. I haven't played Ukyo's route (so please no spoilers, thanks) but I doubt that's in any way connected, I just really don't get this. All the other routes were great, especially Shin's, so what happened here?

[C4RNIVOR3]

Most people look at Toma's route from their own perspective of 'well this is messed up,' which it is. No one's gonna deny that. However it never takes into consideration Toma's own mental instability. He's not really in a position to think logically, in a manner you or I (or any reasonable person really) is able to. He still believes in his mind that he's doing good, that his actions are protecting the MC, and in some twisted way he does, but it's still awful. I do agree though that Toma is honestly a victim of lazy writing, because I feel like they could have communicated his route better and touched on how his own thoughts and feelings affected his actions so negatively, despite his feeling that he's doing good.

I find his route interesting to break down and think about but overall it could have been written better. I do find it annoying when people write Toma off for what he does in his route but yet give Ukyo a pass for his route though. Funnily enough Toma is actually pretty much the favourite in the jpn fandom, from what I've observed. Makes me wonder what's in the other games that draws people to him.

[weddy.wanderer]

Originally posted by C4RNIVOR3:

Most people look at Toma's route from their own perspective of 'well this is messed up,' which it is. No one's gonna deny that. However it never takes into consideration Toma's own mental instability. He's not really in a position to think logically, in a manner you or I (or any reasonable person really) is able to. He still believes in his mind that he's doing good, that his actions are protecting the MC, and in some twisted way he does, but it's still awful. I do agree though that Toma is honestly a victim of lazy writing, because I feel like they could have communicated his route better and touched on how his own thoughts and feelings affected his actions so negatively, despite his feeling that he's doing good.

I find his route interesting to break down and think about but overall it could have been written better. I do find it annoying when people write Toma off for what he does in his route but yet give Ukyo a pass for his route though. Funnily enough Toma is actually pretty much the favourite in the jpn fandom, from what I've observed. Makes me wonder what's in the other games that draws people to him.

Thanks for answering! And I do agree with you. It really would be interesting to break down this route, because now when I think about it, there were quite a few things that were just mentioned briefly, just hinted and I thought we'd have them explained at the end but nothing like that happened. It's never said why Toma is like that, what caused his mental state to get so twisted. There was even a line from Orion, something like "Maybe it's your fault that he's like this now" or something along those lines, I really thought that's foreshadowing or something but nothing else was ever said about it. Also, probably because of the lazy writing, the route feels unfinished overall, just so many things are left unexplained.

Honestly, I never thought I'd like Toma as much and I was also surprised people like him the most. In my opinion, it's because he's probably the only one who's genuienly nice to the MC and all the time I mean, well... apart from when he kept her in a cage but even then he was kind as much as the situation allowed it. I personally started to like him in the other routes because I played them mostly in order, and it's a shame that I liked him the least in his own route.

I was also thinking about the MC. It's implied that she's also quite the character, especially in Kent's route, I thought she was just being outright rude to Kent before she lost her memories. And, from what I could recall, she wasn't that nice to Toma either, in fact, if I remember correctly, both him and Kent were very surprised when she was being nice to them.

[Starphira]

I was actually coming here to forums to give a Trigger Warning about Toma's route. I have some friends that play this game that would be heavily triggered by this route and I already gave them a heads up. The route didn't bother me so much personally, but at the same time, I feel it was very twisted and messed up. I mean, what he did is considered a form of abuse. Not just the caging... throwing her to the ground while she is injured, and locking his hands around her wrists so she can't move? She was already in so much pain as it was...

I get he has a mental issue... but that means he needs professional help! She should had helped him seek such help afterwards. Not say, "It's okay!"

Then again, most abused woman tend to be submissive and not go for help. They allow themselves to contineu to be abused, so I guess it doesn't suprise me she would stay faithful to him even after all he did to her.

I get he was trying to keep her safe, but there are other means to keeping her safe. Drugging and caging is not an option! For one, he could had just told her the DAMN TRUTH! Hey, btw, you are being hunted by a psychotic fan club that you joined before you lost your memories...

Instead he kept her locked away in his home, not giving her any honesty on the matter.

It was very messed up, haha. I don't know what else to say about it. I really liked the story from the beginning... and I was excited to see the rest... but as soon as I got to the drugging and caging, a huge red flag went up.

I just hope... that if young girls play this game, they don't see relationship abuse as something that is okay...

[weddy.wanderer]

Originally posted by Spicy Taco:

I was actually coming here to forums to give a Trigger Warning about Toma's route. I have some friends that play this game that would be heavily triggered by this route and I already gave them a heads up. The route didn't bother me so much personally, but at the same time, I feel it was very twisted and messed up. I mean, what he did is considered a form of abuse. Not just the caging... throwing her to the ground while she is injured, and locking his hands around her wrists so she can't move? She was already in so much pain as it was...

I get he has a mental issue... but that means he needs professional help! She should had helped him seek such help afterwards. Not say, "It's okay!"

Then again, most abused woman tend to be submissive and not go for help. They allow themselves to contineu to be abused, so I guess it doesn't suprise me she would stay faithful to him even after all he did to her.

I get he was trying to keep her safe, but there are other means to keeping her safe. Drugging and caging is not an option! For one, he could had just told her the DAMN TRUTH! Hey, btw, you are being hunted by a psychotic fan club that you joined before you lost your memories...

Instead he kept her locked away in his home, not giving her any honesty on the matter.

It was very messed up, haha. I don't know what else to say about it. I really liked the story from the beginning... and I was excited to see the rest... but as soon as I got to the drugging and caging, a huge red flag went up.

I just hope... that if young girls play this game, they don't see relationship abuse as something that is okay...

Yeah, you definitely have point. It was weird because this abuse was just shown as something completely normal. Like, if the abussed says it's fine then everything's okay which is obviously not true. But I think it all comes from how bad his route was written overall. I mean, just like you said, he could have just told her! This is litterally the best thing he could have done and there was absolutely no reason why he shouldn't. What's actually scary also is that... this abuse here is kind of shown as something that's okay, I mean it kind of even makes you believe nothing that much was done to the MC. Which is why I found it so weird that the good ending is... the way it is, like some not that bad bad ending. It's just such a shame cause I was really looking forward to this route. I mean, even if we accept that this abuse wasn't that big of a deal, even then the route is nothing that much special at all. To me, at least, felt like the least interesting one.

[candelu]

I just got 3 ends from this route... and I don't think I'll be able to sleep.
I got the bad end first, where Ukyo kills you (and totally intentional, it was SO OBVIOUS that was a dead end, that's why I took the chance when I had it!) and then the neutral end, even though I was trying to get the good one at the first shot. But it's like really hard to try to have a happy ending with the LUNATIC WHO PUTS YOU IN A F*ING CAGE. WHAT THE ACTUAL ♥♥♥♥.
And I was soooo disappointed, because I played Shin's and Ikki's first and I was convinced that my favourite HAD to be Toma's. And, BAM!! PSYCHO.
And I really really liked how it started and how it ended, why did they have to make him such a horrible human being?! It was really hard to feel any emotion when he confesses his love, considering he just got you out of the cage to physically attack you!!
Toma could have explained everything from the start and they could have spent a lot of time together trying to find out the culprits! Meanwhile everyone would think that the MC and Ikki where dating, except it was all a trick to make Toma jelaous, but MC clearly doesn't know and Ikki was away for some reason. And it would have all been perfectly romantic, equally dramatic and not at all the psychotic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ we had to endure!
So so SOOOO DISAPPOINTED.

[Shatcey]

At first, I was shocked, like you were. I couldn't even say a word... All this "cage thing" way too much for me...
But now... I can think with a cold head, without emotions...
Well, she obviously wanted him to be with her 24 hours a day, she is obsessed with him so much, what makes her nor less (maybe even more) crazy, then he is.
This is her opinion, that what he's done "it's ok" for her... Normal people would never accept that as normal. But here we don't have normal people.
And they are probably very happy with their craziness...
So they deserve each over...

[Raven]

I keep getting the worst ending with Toma! The one he just leaves.
WHY would someone who is obsessed with you just leave? It makes NO sense!

And no matter WHAT I do I seem to end up with the same horrible ending! *Sobs*

What am I doing wrong?
I do just about everything to get closer to Toma, but I just don't get a SINGLE choice in staying with him. At all.

I had the same problem with Ikki's route at my second playtrough (I got the sweet and romantic, if somewhat hospitalised ending the first time) but at the end he just walked away and I did NOT get a SINGLE choice to stop him.

Why the heck not?! >_<

Is there some kind of Walktrough for their routes somewhere?
I want MY kind of good ending, not the horrible endings.
And I really don't understand why any of them would ever leave you alone. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe normal people of the type you see in sit-coms would leave the person they love if it would make them happy, but I can't imagine someone as yandere-like as these people would. (I most certainly wouldn't have.)

I mean... I understand Toma trying to be considerate, because he clearly have some self-loathing issues. But I'd more expect that he would have stuck around and stalked you at the very least, not left.

And in both cases, you SHOULD have gotten a choice to grab Ikki's hand and correct him in his assumptions.
And in Toma's case, chosen to stay or flee.

It was SUCH a charming thing he said at the end there!
Little scary, yes, but not nearly enough to make ME want to run away.
(Beside, he was pretty clear that he didn't plan to do what he was doing to you forever. Really... Would giving you the chance to be a bit patient hurt that much? Orion practically kicked me to disobey Toma, -I- never had a choice.)

Toma was just wonderful and sweet.
I wanted to smack him over the head and foundly call him an idiot a few times.
Or prove to him that I COULD have run, but didn't. Which SHOULD have proven that I wanted to be there.
But I never got the choice to do that either.

I adore this game, I really do.
But I feel like there is just not enough choices in it that matters in a way that makes sense.
(And I wish there was more different endings available. What is it? 2? 3?)

So I REALLY need a cheat guide to figure out to get to the GOOD endings. By which I really mean the "bad" endings. Which is most likely the endings I like the best.
It usually is....

[Raven]

I also note some people seem upset with the cage thing, which I don't really understand myself --Toma did say he'd let you out eventually-- but I understand that people are different.

And that's why it's important to have many different endings, so everyone can be happy.
Even twisted monsters (or would that be monster-lovers?) like me. ^_^

[Raven]

Oh, and I really like the green haired man. ^_^
(Which probably does not say good things about my sanity. But truly; Love at first sight, and I like him better and better the more I see. ❤️)

Who is he? Is he a love interest?
Maybe one of the ??? on the start screen?
How do I unlock them?

I tried to find a better place to post this, but I don't know his name.

And to the creators: Please put in a damned "Quit" button.
Or make it easier to find if it exists.
I'm getting tired of having to make the game into windowed mode just to shut it down.