UploadVR test shows: HTC Vive tracking is much better than Oculus Rift

[Amylion]

There is a lot of confusion about the room-scale tracking ability of the Oculus Rift. Noone doubted that it would be able to track the headset itself within a limited play-area. The concern was:
1. The need to use additional cables, mounts, and higher user effort (making it a niche).
2. The 360° tracking of the Touch controllers.
3. The limited field of view of the camera.

There are more issues, but the topic is about the UploadVR test testing the field of view and range of the camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyNKR_-uKfs&feature=youtu.be
As you can clearly see, he begins to lose tracking when getting closer to 1 metre to the cam! If they would do the same test with the HTC Vive Lighthouse system (using only 1 basestation), it would never happen that it would lose tracking, because each Lighthouse basestation has a much, much higher field of view than the Oculus camera and is able to track the whole (!) room if no objects (like furniture) occlude line of sight.

This means:
1. HTC Vive's tracking is superior.
2. Even when using 2 cameras in the perfect setup, the Oculus Rift will run constantly into tracking issues when the Touch controllers come close (1 m) to one of the cameras.
3. Since the troublefree tracking only works in a distance to the camera (1 - 1,5m), you obviously need a bigger room to track the same play-area as the Vive could!

The surprising conclusion:
If you got a small room and want VR experiences who make use of it as much as possible, you better choose HTC Vive!

Oculus Rift inability to do full room-scale means you can't track enough space to deliver the same experience a Vive could in the very same room.

[Tucu]

My main doubts with the Oculus and room scale are:
- how many cameras will you need to setup for proper 360 tracking with the Touch controllers. Oculus seems to think that you need 2 for 180 degree tracking. So 4 cameras? or maybe 3?
- How much will the volume of the tracked area be decreased due to the limited vertical and horizontal FOV of the cameras. The Vive lighthouses seem to be able to track objects just below them.
- Will USB3 extenders work with the Oculus cameras without adding too much latency?
- Will judges rule that installing 4 cameras in the living room is unreasonable behaviour when the inevitable divorce proceedings start?

[Amylion]

Badacid.Velox a écrit :

Amylion a écrit :

Tangens(90° - 70°) = 0,364. Assuming height of cam is 2,7 m -> distance on the ground = 2,7 m * 0,364 = 0,98 m ~ 1 metre

Not convined about the minimum of 1m though. That might be immediatly above or below the camera, but if your in front of it i'm not sure it has a minimum tracking of 1m does it?

My math was pretty clear: There is a blind spot in the corner that even the second cam can't track if your body occludes the controllers. The blind spot has the shape of a cone. A slice through this cone is a triangle. One side is the height (2,7m). The angle is 20°. The relation of the base line to the adjacent cathetus is Tangens(20°) ~ 0,36. That means that at the ground you lose tracking of the controllers if closer than 1 metre to the corner (when the other cam is behind you and can't see the controller).

[Amylion]

Tucu a écrit :

My main doubts with the Oculus and room scale are:
- how many cameras will you need to setup for proper 360 tracking with the Touch controllers. Oculus seems to think that you need 2 for 180 degree tracking. So 4 cameras? or maybe 3?
- How much will the volume of the tracked area be decreased due to the limited vertical and horizontal FOV of the cameras. The Vive lighthouses seem to be able to track objects just below them.
- Will USB3 extenders work with the Oculus cameras without adding too much latency?
- Will judges rule that installing 4 cameras in the living room is unreasonable behaviour when the inevitable divorce proceedings start?

- The Vive Pre manual suggests a minimal distance to the basestations of 0,5 m. This is not to be confused with the 1 metre I mentioned before in regard to the distance to the corner in an Oculus setup! Former is the distance to the basestations, the latter is the shortest distance to the wall!
- Another advantage of the Vive, that is very hard to achieve using Oculus Constellation: The Lighthouses can track many sensors, many items without any problems or additional effort!
This will become very handy and even very important in the future, when the headsets will have a much smaller form-factor (similar to Hololens). You will then want to be able to jump into VR with multiple HMDs at the same time in the same room!
Of course this ability of the Lighthouse tracking is already a big advantage, because the mixed reality videos only work, because you can track as many Vive wands as you want, therefore enabling the tracking of a camera on top of the 2 controllers and the headset.

[Badacid.Velox]

Amylion a écrit :

Badacid.Velox a écrit :

Not convined about the minimum of 1m though. That might be immediatly above or below the camera, but if your in front of it i'm not sure it has a minimum tracking of 1m does it?

My math was pretty clear: There is a blind spot in the corner that even the second cam can't track if your body occludes the controllers. The blind spot has the shape of a cone. A slice through this cone is a triangle. One side is the height (2,7m). The angle is 20°. The relation of the base line to the adjacent cathetus is Tangens(20°) ~ 0,36. That means that at the ground you lose tracking of the controllers if closer than 1 metre to the corner (when the other cam is behind you and can't see the controller).

Pretend for a minute that I dropped out of school early and was working in a bike shop when I should have been doing exams and even if I had done them, it was 27 years ago and I wouldn't have a chance of remembering all that anyway, then tell me again about the math

[VbHD]

Hes saying that if the guy stood right next to the camera, (within 1'ish meters) and waved his arms with the motion controllers (which obviously dont exist yet), they would lose tracking if he held his arms around his waistline height or lower.

Hes also saying that because in theory his body is blocking view of the other camera, which is directly opposite it, the other camera, while in theory having excellent view of that movement still would not track it, because the mans torso is in the way.

[Amylion]

VbHD a écrit :

Hes saying that if the guy stood right next to the camera, (within 1'ish meters) and waved his arms with the motion controllers (which obviously dont exist yet), they would lose tracking if he held his arms around his waistline height or lower.

Hes also saying that because in theory his body is blocking view of the other camera, which is directly opposite it, the other camera, while in theory having excellent view of that movement still would not track it, because the mans torso is in the way.

Hmm... not really. :S
The 1 m is the distance on the ground, from end of fully tracked area to the wall / corner.

Actually I don't have any other words.
Maybe an example: I want to grab something on the ground with my controller, maybe a throwing knife on the ground. I am in the corner of my play-area facing cam A in this corner. Cam B is behind me and can't see the controllers, because my body occludes them. Cam A can see them at normal height, but will lose them when they are near the ground and closer than 1 m to the corner.

I am not good in using English to describe complicated issues. Don't know if it's only my lack of language skill.

[VbHD]

Yeah I was attempting to describe the same thing, I might not have done a great job, sorry. But I certainly can picture what you describe.

[Noxy]

I jus wanna point out a few things. For one this is an unfair comparison,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFTyXoabK4

the results of this video say somthing quite different to what you are claiming.

Second, Constant tracking issues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty67YU_89sg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnN6ORLmExo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0DtWADoAg

Please get a properly informed opinion M9

[Amylion]

I am properly informed and showed it in my original post. Your videos show extreme cases that only work in exotic setups, where the available space is much larger than the play area.

Furthermore they avoid the blind spots of the setup by only standing in the middle and not moving the hands out of the cameras.

"Unseen Diplomacy" for example won't work.
Oculus doesn't officially support theses setups.

I don't care anymore. We have warned Oculus fanboys way before all the disasters, and who didn't listen, deserves what he gets. Just don't lie to people.

[Noxy]

"Extreme cases" that are Identical to most all Vive setups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvQiQgLA6RA This is a good example of how it tracks with a single tracker.

Also, of course it will have blind spots, Jus like the vive has blind spots. Neither of these products are Perfect, and im sick to death of this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ biased bull.

[Amylion]

Facts aren't "biased bull".

HTC Vive tracking: 120° x 120° up to 5m
With the Vive there are no blind spots in the whole tracked room.

Oculus tracking: 100° x 70° up to 2m
Many users report unreliable tracking beyond 2m, where the lacking camera resolution begins to show and tracking has to fall back to the internal gyrscopes and accelerometres, which of course are very inaccurate.

[Noxy]

Are you even watching any of the videos im sending? It shows a one camera tracking way past 2m easily. Not only that, but Using one sensor with the vive IS WORSE than using one with the rift, Main issue being that turning away from a sensor stops any of the headset from seeing the lighthouse, which is a problem the dk2 helped solve, when people werent able to turn around and look at scenery.

I dont want to be told that the rift is an incapable peice of hardware because its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ biased and uninformed assertion. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Im giving you real world evidence that it isnt garbage. Oculus worked around its single sensor, adding the tracking LEDS to the back strap so it would work effectivly. And when touch comes out the nesessity of the back straps tracking is negated, which is why the vive does not have them, coming with 2 lighthouse sensors.

You cannot deny that oculus made a formidable product, because it is simply a lie.

That said, I dont want to seem like im ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the vive. IT IS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ AWESOME. I wouldnt be browsing the HTC vive discussions, or playing tiltbrush for hours at my friends house, if i thought otherwise. Im just tired of HTC vive fanboys ruining VR for me with your crappy arguments and dumbfounded ability to use confirmation bias to justify attacking the competition.

Its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ apple and samsung fanboys all over again UGH

[Amylion]

Listen, just argue with facts, like I did: I gave you the basic mathematical numbers that show, why Oculus Rift can't compete with HTC Vive in terms of room-scale.

If you want to educate yourself, you could read the recent Reddit "Ask me Anything" with VR developers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4q5szi/we_are_30_virtual_reality_game_developers_for_the/d4qftt4

Question is about Oculus Touch.
Answers from various VR developers:

At the moment, some of us are worried about supporting opposing camera tracking because it's not yet officially 'recommended' - that is, the official recommended set up is the two front-facing cameras on the desk. So, we can't safely design a game for Touch with the opposing camera set up because we can't assume people will use it. Additionally, at the moment there's no way to warn people about using alternative set ups, which just makes it harder. So, for now most of us are stuck with the 180 set up (as we call it). I know they're looking into it, and may make an official statement on it, but I can't remember the source of that.

(nightsfrost, Eerie Bear Games)

We most likely won't support opposing cameras at launch because we're a small team and we'd rather tailor an experience that works well on the given platform in the configuration that the majority of people will use. Opposing cameras have always felt a little hacky with the rift for me with tracking that hasn't exactly created the best experience, but it is something that we will explore further in the future.

(TehOmbra, Coal Car Studio)

I'm a dev. Right now the main issue I'm having is the FOV on the Oculus sensors isn't as wide as the Vive, so I can't take full advantage of the space in my VR room.

(wolfbrother9393, Emerson Smith)

First up, /u/nightsfrost was totally accurate in that Oculus does not recommend (maybe even 'discourages') opposing camera setup. This generates a market where, if your game relies on it, you are cutting an already-small-pie into an even smaller one, thus hamstringing yourself in a business sense. Supporting "weird" setups is not easy when a market is this new - see also: how many games support vr treadmills? Or how many flat games support portrait monitors?

That said, I've mounted my Vive lighthouses and my oculus cameras on the same poles in the corner of my standard (north american sized) bedroom. The cameras are technically inferior in this setup (they have trouble detecting depth at distance, and the lighthouses are better at it) but the end result is: I don't really see much of a difference. This disparity becomes more apparent the further you increase the range. (you can test this yourself with an Oculus CV1 - just set your camera on your desk and slowly back away from it. You'll see it start losing tracking sooner than an equivalently setup lighthouse would.)

(weasello, Radial Games)

And this all comes from devs, who are working together with Oculus on Touch games.

[Amylion]

We won’t support Unseen Diplomacy on Oculus Touch due to tracking volume limitations and the hardware design that means that you would not be able to do the crawling or rolling segments of the game. We didn’t want to compromise the design of the game.

TriangularPixels

[dannyhefc69]

Thing is aswel, they need to sell touch for less than $150 which i cant see happening. Or it will work out that the rift is the more expensive product but falls short of the vive. I don't know what there going to do