HTC Vive has design flaw - sweat can damage device / now i have warranty problem

[RzeznikZLasu]

Guys my HTC Vive stooped responding and i have send it to warranty/RMA. I have got nice feedback that states:

"During the repair process our technicians have identified that the repair cannot be completed in warranty due to the following reason: Liquid Damage- traces of liquid on the components of the device (oxide marks) "

This is ridiculous.I have never took HTC Vive to shower or for swimming. I was playing few times in room scale. Because now we have summer so I have sweated. There was no information that those googles have such design problem with sweat. If I were aware of this I would choose stuff like headband. I am angry because I have been using many electronic devices many of them have some water protection or silicon seal or sprayed with something. How they can design such device that has vulnerability to sweat/perspiration. They give us intense games like boxing , table tennis but device is not sweat resistance. Whole situation is ridiculous.

How you can deal with such situation?

[Press start to begin]

i'm sorry to hear this, but we are all aware ( most of us ) that it is up to us to clean the lens and around it from the vive with the small black tissue that was in the box. tbh its always better to clean it gently after each or every few times you use it.

[Nordomus]

How I would deal with this situation? I had many problems too and I know now that I most likely won't buy next Vive from HTC, since their support is one of the worse out there. It's almost impossible to deal with such big company. I agree with your outrage completely. If your Vive broke because of sweat in/on device then there is BIG design flaw but not only that, since this is problem for HTC then this is even bigger issue.

[RzeznikZLasu]

İlk olarak Nordomus tarafından gönderildi:

How I would deal with this situation? I had many problems too and I know now that I most likely won't buy next Vive from HTC, since their support is one of the worse out there. It's almost impossible to deal with such big company. I agree with your outrage completely. If your Vive broke because of sweat in/on device then there is BIG design flaw but not only that, since this is problem for HTC then this is even bigger issue.

If I have read before that HTC vive have problem with sweat I would never buy it. I have read few complains like mine about that device, but it was too late.

[just.nuke.em]

I highly doubt sweat is the issue. Are you sure you didn't accidentally spill water on it?

[RzeznikZLasu]

İlk olarak just.nuke.em tarafından gönderildi:

I highly doubt sweat is the issue. Are you sure you didn't accidentally spill water on it?

No, i have not spilited any water. It was just some sweat.(It summur and is HARD to not sweat at all) That was my 4th day with HTC Vive and on 5th it broke. I have found out that some people have similiar issue with device.

[bmac1191]

They most likely have a water sensor inside like cell phones. I really find it hard to believe that you sweat that much it got soaked inside the headset. If the headset/foam got that wet, it would fog up so bad you wouldn't be able to play it.

Also, if you only had it a few days, why didn't you return it to the place that you bought it? Call your credit card company and charge it back.

[garfie2000]

I've never sweated so badly that the device became drenched. Others who played it sweated a lot but not that much.
Can't imagine sweating while playing did it.

[The Maddog]

İlk olarak RzeznikZLasu tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak just.nuke.em tarafından gönderildi:

I highly doubt sweat is the issue. Are you sure you didn't accidentally spill water on it?

No, i have not spilited any water. It was just some sweat.(It summur and is HARD to not sweat at all) That was my 4th day with HTC Vive and on 5th it broke. I have found out that some people have similiar issue with device.

I have seen at least one other story and the following video about Vives dying due to sweat since the Vive launched (same for the Rift as well).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABCGqYzMDyw


Now to be fair, if you watch the vid (starting at the 35 second mark) you'll see this wasnt casual sweating but some serious full on flooding the Vive till it drowns type sweating. The Vive litterally soaks the floor after it's taken off (and then promptly died). Even in the one reddit post I read (not yours..I've seen it) a few months back the person admitted to sweating excisivly due to being out of shape.

So is it a design fault? I dont think so. The Vive can handle "some" sweating. It makes sense because if it couldnt we would never hear the end of these "sweat killed my Vive" complaints. The vive also gets warm so it should be evaporating most peoples sweat before it builds up to much. More importantly though, HTC clearly states "prolonged, uninterrupted use of the product should be avoided" in the manual. An hour playing followed by a short break is probably ok but 3 hours of uninterupted sweating?

So is it perhaps HTC looking for an excuse to not service your Vive? Again..I dont think so. Now I'm not going to say HTC are the best when it comes to after sales service but I and others had no issues when we needed our Vive repairing (through the very same European serice center you used).

So deductive reasoning indicates there was indeed some serious moisture damage inside the headset. Maybe you sweated a lot more than you realized (recent heatwave) or maybe you just sweat a lot and think the Vive should handle it but eitherway, there's a line where HTC is not responsible for damage to the unit and it was obviously crossed here.

Since you're in the EU, you can legally dispute the claim HTC has made which means it now up to you to prove that there was either no moisture damage (which HTC claim there is) or that it is indeed a design flaw and HTC have to accept responsibility for it, at which point you'll have to prove you used it as per the manual usage guide. For that you'll have to contact your local trading standards (or equivlent office) and fees may be involved.

Your only other options are to just suck it up and move on / pay for a reapir or perhaps claim on your household insurance if it extends to accidental damage.

Whatever you decide...good luck.

[ifoundit1]

Well im glad i found this it would have been a shame to buy the horrificly overpriced 2 wii remotes and a smart phone with IR tracking cameras to have it break from something like heavy breathing.

[The Maddog]

İlk olarak Tony tarafından gönderildi:

Well im glad i found this it would have been a shame to buy the horrificly overpriced 2 wii remotes and a smart phone with IR tracking cameras to have it break from something like heavy breathing.

Well if thats all it is, I'm sure you'll have no problems making your own VR kit. You'll be able to get super rich selling it cheaply to the masses.

[RzeznikZLasu]

İlk olarak bmac1191 tarafından gönderildi:

They most likely have a water sensor inside like cell phones. I really find it hard to believe that you sweat that much it got soaked inside the headset. If the headset/foam got that wet, it would fog up so bad you wouldn't be able to play it.

Also, if you only had it a few days, why didn't you return it to the place that you bought it? Call your credit card company and charge it back.

I returned it to repair becouse i didnt do anything wrong if I were aware about such problems in repairing , belive me I would do took money back. I was shocked that was possible. Now for repair they want amount almost equal of Oculus Rift this is BS. I hope you won't share my ♥♥♥♥ expirience with Vive.

[RzeznikZLasu]

İlk olarak The Maddog tarafından gönderildi:

***
So deductive reasoning indicates there was indeed some serious moisture damage inside the headset. Maybe you sweated a lot more than you realized (recent heatwave) or maybe you just sweat a lot and think the Vive should handle it but eitherway, there's a line where HTC is not responsible for damage to the unit and it was obviously crossed here.

***

In summer is impossible to not sweat. Where is the line ? I am desinger and at begining you are considering such things as sweat. They are promoting heavy activity games and such ♥♥♥♥ will happend some people will have bad luck. Such damage can be easly avoided by design. Some anti sweat coating stuff like that(silicon liquids) . This is my 1st device that was broken becouse of "liqds" If I pay like 899Euro for device I excpect decent quality, a bit higher than casul smartphone that is more watter proof than that HTC Vive. this should not be my prblem if I sweat a lot or a bit or think how much i a bit or a lot. The best thing is not sweat at all, but then they should not sell games like holopoint or boxing, those games bu deafault will make people wet...

[DemonicShadow]

I crank my air conditioning when playing my vive

another thing i do every time after using my vive is i ring out a paper towel and wipe the foam and strap and then get dry paper towel and wipe that down and then i clean the lenses with the provided cloth

now the most important thing is this after you clean it let it sit before you store it becasue if the moisture in foam dose not evaporate it can cause fogging up the lenses later and water damage

[The Maddog]

İlk olarak RzeznikZLasu tarafından gönderildi:

In summer is impossible to not sweat. Where is the line ?

Absolutly agree, but as I said, given the few reports of failures due to moisture damage you must be sweating on the hard end of the spectrum (as per the example in the original video I posted).
The line, I suspect, is at the point where your Vive is litterally filling up with sweat.

İlk olarak RzeznikZLasu tarafından gönderildi:

I am desinger and at begining you are considering such things as sweat. They are promoting heavy activity games and such ♥♥♥♥ will happend some people will have bad luck. Such damage can be easly avoided by design. Some anti sweat coating stuff like that(silicon liquids) .

Being a designer then you'll know that all things will have been taken into consideration when designing the Vive. To claim otherwise is niave. Take a look at this tear down video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUb3NCseDd8

Looking at the breakdown, to me it would seem that a considerable amount of sweat would have to start pooling in the device for it to get to the acctual electronics (again..as per the first example video I posted). More so, adding something like silicon gels or liquids (which probably are included in the design) just add more weight and make a unit a lot harder to service should it ever need it. Again...going by your deigner comment, when it comes to complicated and compact electronics, you'll be aware that it's never so easy as to "just add something" but more about balance and practicality. Finding that line as it is.

İlk olarak RzeznikZLasu tarafından gönderildi:

This is my 1st device that was broken becouse of "liqds" If I pay like 899Euro for device I excpect decent quality, a bit higher than casul smartphone that is more watter proof than that HTC Vive. this should not be my prblem if I sweat a lot or a bit or think how much i a bit or a lot. The best thing is not sweat at all, but then they should not sell games like holopoint or boxing, those games bu deafault will make people wet...

I do sympathise with your predicatment but legally, there is a point where HTC are not liable and you are. I do not know exactly how much you sweated, nor can I say exactly how much sweat is too much sweat (according to HTC). I just know that the Vive passed all sorts of legal testing requirements to reach market, what the user manual says about usage and that I've never had an issue personally (and I do play many of the very energetic games). If the same thing happened to me with my vive, I'd be very upset too...and who knows, it could happen one day.

As I said in my first post, there are avenues you can explore outside of HTC to get a resolution if you think HTC are in the wrong. I genuinly do think you should follow them up as well because if you are in the right, then no one else should have HTC turn down a repair due to the matter.

[RzeznikZLasu]

İlk olarak The Maddog tarafından gönderildi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUb3NCseDd8

Looking at the breakdown, to me it would seem that a considerable amount of sweat would have to start pooling in the device for it to get to the acctual electronics (again..as per the first example video I posted). More so, adding something like silicon gels or liquids (which probably are included in the design) just add more weight and make a unit a lot harder to service should it ever need it. Again...going by your deigner comment, when it comes to complicated and compact electronics, you'll be aware that it's never so easy as to "just add something" but more about balance and practicality. Finding that line as it is.

I would like to see where was that damnage part was spotted in my device.
They could also lied about type of damage and just took one random excuse to not repaid device - I would not be even suprise.


THere are siicone liquids out there that are light like that one.
Problem would be just connections.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOu5hRqSDtU


Also when I get such device to play I don't want be paranoid if any type of sweat can break into this is ridiculus. Stuff like that can kill fun for many people.
From user expierence the crosed line is 1st sign of perspiration and take device away.
From HTC perspectice crossed line with perspiration is when is it getting broken they just put "liquid damage" and this is over. IMO they were cutting cost at production and they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up - this is quite common and now they pass those cost on clients. Some people will broke those googles fast like I had some will have lcukly and not. But probablity that it will go broke is higher the longer someone have it and use it becouse device was not prepered to deal with sweat from day 0. Someone can get luckly with HTC Vive and someone not - I was not that lucly as you were.