Question about Shadow Strike...

[YamaKami]

Is shadow strike considered by the game to be, ranged, stealth, both, or something else entirely?

I've never been clear on that, and I would like to be to better exploit Orc weaknesses....

[Phil]

It's blocked by Arrow-proof, if that's any indication.

[Eikthyrnir]

in Shadow of Mordor it was ranged, so i will assume it is still ranged

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

It's blocked by Arrow-proof, if that's any indication.

That would certainly imply it is ranged. Though when an Orc is resistant to stealth the attacks it fails too.

You use a sword (melee) to "execute" your target, in a "stealth"y fashion, from range. Hence my confusion.

Originally posted by Sparkius:

in Shadow of Mordor it was ranged, so i will assume it is still ranged

But is it only governed by range alone?

[Krono]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Though when an Orc is resistant to stealth the attacks it fails too.

You use a sword (melee) to "execute" your target, in a "stealth"y fashion, from range. Hence my confusion.

I've never seen it fail on an enemy that was immune to stealth

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Krono:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Though when an Orc is resistant to stealth the attacks it fails too.

You use a sword (melee) to "execute" your target, in a "stealth"y fashion, from range. Hence my confusion.

I've never seen it fail on an enemy that was immune to stealth

They block it every time?

[Phil]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

It's blocked by Arrow-proof, if that's any indication.

That would certainly imply it is ranged. Though when an Orc is resistant to stealth the attck fails too.

You use a sword (melee) to "execute" your target, in a "stealth"y fashion, from range. Hence my confusion.

Originally posted by Sparkius:

in Shadow of Mordor it was ranged, so i will assume it is still ranged

But is it only governed by range alone?

In such cases I can only conclude that "vigilant against stealth" if that's what you're referring to prevents any sort of attacks while unawares. Have you tried using the non-lethal shadowstrike on them? I haven't experimented with it much on this yet.

All that said, shadowstrike is definitely considered to be a ranged attack as dagger throws or the bow.

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

That would certainly imply it is ranged. Though when an Orc is resistant to stealth the attck fails too.

You use a sword (melee) to "execute" your target, in a "stealth"y fashion, from range. Hence my confusion.


But is it only governed by range alone?

In such cases I can only conclude that "vigilant against stealth" if that's what you're referring to prevents any sort of attacks while unawares. Have you tried using the non-lethal shadowstrike on them? I haven't experimented with it much on this yet.

All that said, shadowstrike is definitely considered to be a ranged attack as dagger throws or the bow.

If it has to be one stealth would be the most fitting IMHO. The attack itself is not done at range and with the sword after all. Basically works the same as dropping down from above for a stealth kill. And yes I meant "vigilant against stealth" as far as the specific trait.

[Phil]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

In such cases I can only conclude that "vigilant against stealth" if that's what you're referring to prevents any sort of attacks while unawares. Have you tried using the non-lethal shadowstrike on them? I haven't experimented with it much on this yet.

All that said, shadowstrike is definitely considered to be a ranged attack as dagger throws or the bow.

If it has to be one stealth would be the most fitting IMHO. The attack itself is not done at range and with the sword after all. Basically works the same as dropping down from above for a stealth kill. And yes I meant "vigilant against stealth" as far as the specific trait.

Yeah I'm sure they had an internal discussion on the matter, but ranged is where it ended up classified as because by the game it seems to be counted as a bow attack. plus it's more of a ranged attack than stealth in my opinion as you're using it to close in and attack from a distance in a not-very-stealthy fashion.

Of course it could be argued that brutalize is not very stealthy either, thus we have two examples of things not quite fitting their assigned classification. Ultimately I think it was just a call to balance out the gameplay or some such.

By that i mean so that there'd be an even allotment of abilities for each classification.

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

If it has to be one stealth would be the most fitting IMHO. The attack itself is not done at range and with the sword after all. Basically works the same as dropping down from above for a stealth kill. And yes I meant "vigilant against stealth" as far as the specific trait.

Yeah I'm sure they had an internal discussion on the matter, but ranged is where it ended up classified as because by the game it seems to be counted as a bow attack. plus it's more of a ranged attack than stealth in my opinion as you're using it to close in and attack from a distance in a not-very-stealthy fashion.

Of course it could be argued that brutalize is not very stealthy either, thus we have two examples of things not quite fitting their assigned classification. Ultimately I think it was just a call to balance out the gameplay or some such.

By that i mean so that there'd be an even allotment of abilities for each classification.

I feel brutalize is stealth for certain as you can only do so if you start the attack while unnoticed like all other steal attacks, barring only shadow strike. I mean even the name "shadow strike" sounds stealthy. Where as if you use a stealth kill from the top of a tower and drop 200 feet or so down, it's not counted as ranged.

[Phil]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

I feel brutalize is stealth for certain as you can only do so if you start the attack while unnoticed like all other steal attacks, barring only shadow strike. I mean even the name "shadow strike" sounds stealthy. Where as if you use a stealth kill from the top of a tower and drop 200 feet or so down, it's not counted as ranged.

At the end of the day, as I said, I believe it comes to a matter of balancing of the gameplay and abilities. They could have had it considered to be stealth, but functionally speaking it could be considered either a ranged attack or a stealthy attack depending on how you look at it.

I mentioned brutalize becausse it's another instance where the stealth classification fits, but not entirely as the very purpose of brutalize is not to be stealthy but to scare the ♥♥♥♥ out of people.

Ultimately I think it is where it is to walk the line, while leaning more toward ranged to give ranged focused people an alternative rather than give the stealth mechanics more juice.

That said, I don't believe the game considers it to be a stealthy attack, though I could be wrong. I've not had issues personally using it on stealth immune characters in shadow of war, but I usually used the non-lethal variant on captains and of course they may have changed it, though I don't believe they have.

[YamaKami]

Well I am going to assume for now it is solely ranged unless I see/hear otherwise.

One last quick question about quick strike though. I have found a couple of hammers in the game that can take the place of the bow. I've yet to try either of them as I find the bow to be useful for shadow strikes (oft times just to cover a large distance unnoticed). As well as for triggering camp fire detonations, grog barrel explosions and so on...

Can quick strikes be done with the hammer? I assume not as I also assume it is not a ranged weapon. However I do not know for certain. Also if you cannot do these things, then what advantage over the bow do the hammers have?

[Phil]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Well I am going to assume for now it is solely ranged unless I see/hear otherwise.

One last quick question about quick strike though. I have found a couple of hammers in the game that can take the place of the bow. I've yet to try either of them as I find the bow to be useful for shadow strikes (oft times just to cover a large distance unnoticed). As well as for triggering camp fire detonations, grog barrel explosions and so on...

Can quick strikes be done with the hammer? I assume not as I also assume it is not a ranged weapon. However I do not know for certain. Also if you cannot do these things, then what advantage over the bow do the hammers have?

Hammers are actually ranged, you charge and throw like the bow, except charged shots do AoEs on impact. Less damage, but a natural AoE for charged attacks. Everything else should function the same as bows.

I believe hammers count headshots as well. It comes down to a matter of preference I suppose, hammers are pretty good for crowds. The maximum range might be lower? I haven't tested the difference in range between bows, long bows, and hammers yet. so thanks for reminding me to do that!

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Well I am going to assume for now it is solely ranged unless I see/hear otherwise.

One last quick question about quick strike though. I have found a couple of hammers in the game that can take the place of the bow. I've yet to try either of them as I find the bow to be useful for shadow strikes (oft times just to cover a large distance unnoticed). As well as for triggering camp fire detonations, grog barrel explosions and so on...

Can quick strikes be done with the hammer? I assume not as I also assume it is not a ranged weapon. However I do not know for certain. Also if you cannot do these things, then what advantage over the bow do the hammers have?

Hammers are actually ranged, you charge and throw like the bow, except charged shots do AoEs on impact. Less damage, but a natural AoE for charged attacks. Everything else should function the same as bows.

Ah good to know, cheers for that info. :)

[Phil]

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

Hammers are actually ranged, you charge and throw like the bow, except charged shots do AoEs on impact. Less damage, but a natural AoE for charged attacks. Everything else should function the same as bows.

Ah good to know, cheers for that info. :)

edited my post wwith some stuff. I just woke up so my thoughts are gathering slowly, sorry. lol

[YamaKami]

Originally posted by Vertigo of the Toasted:

Originally posted by YamaKami:

Ah good to know, cheers for that info. :)

edited my post wwith some stuff. I just woke up so my thoughts are gathering slowly, sorry. lol

I was assuming the range would be less myself. Sitting at work now though myself so testing it out will have to come later

Do you have to collect elf shot for each one thrown? Are they like bows too where the weapon itself determines that amount of shots?