Legendary & Epic Pointless?

[Chances]

Okay, so I've been going through my play through and have been happily noticing a steady stream of Legendary and Epic Uruk showing up for the slaughter / recruitment. But after time and time again, I'm noticing these guys, while higher level and a lot more tricks, are proving lack luster in comparison to some even standard Uruk Captains, which is starting to make me wonder if:

A) I'm just getting a lot of unlucky rolls for my Epic / Legendaries and they're just utter trash.

B) The tiers don't matter, they just get extra 'Legendary / Epic Abilties' but beyond that, they are as common as their brothers.

If its A, I just need to be patient, but if its B, why am I even bothering hunting these guys down unless they have GLOWING stats that would make them beneficial to my army?

Thoughts? Opinions? Tomatoes?

[[PBS] Wo3dy]

i believe, that every orc has a chance on good traits, and generated epic/legendaries have an increased chance on this. with 1/2 certain epic traits.

but thats my theory

[Demon of Razgriz]

I am pretty sure it is just B. Some abilties might be a littler better than the non epic/legendary version, but they are not some super godly orc.

[Wahnwitzig]

Some epic abilities are strong but the trait mix is what matters.

B

[MafiaPenguin]

i havent had any trouble myself with orc tiers, they all feel the same to me with an added situational bonus for legend and epic, dont get me wrong though, when that situation is there, they pretty much win. but really, tiers have only just been a "what kind of loot will i be getting then" situation for me

[Chances]

Sounds like I'm changing up my game plan. Unless they show spectacular stats, aim for the Epic \ Legendaries for the loot.

Thanks for the advice. I'll make changes and see how things perform.

[Wahnwitzig]

Originally posted by Chances:

Sounds like I'm changing up my game plan. Unless they show spectacular stats, aim for the Epic \ Legendaries for the loot.

Thanks for the advice. I'll make changes and see how things perform.

Depends what you are looking for. Orcs with Frost-Proof and Arrow-Proof are potential overlords and orcs that kill everything in a few seconds are good fort defenders.

[hermanJnr.]

Yeah IMO legendaries are overrated so far. Though it depends on how well the epic skills gel with their overall skillset.

I saw a Legendary Poison Destroyer once who had the ability to throw poison bombs, mines and all this other crazy stuff all over the place almost constantly, and in that instance he obviously was "Legendary".

But honestly I'm more scared by a normal Orc with "No Last Chance" and some sort of horribly damaging ranged attack than I am by a "Legendary" Berserker who has the "epic" ability to throw a weak knife every 30 seconds.

[Pheace]

Originally posted by куƶєє 💕:

Depends what you are looking for. Orcs with Frost-Proof and Arrow-Proof are potential overlords and orcs that kill everything in a few seconds are good fort defenders.

I'd say Beast-proof or slayer as well. No point in the other two if you can just summon a Graug and beat them down.

[Wahnwitzig]

Originally posted by Pheace:

Originally posted by куƶєє 💕:

Depends what you are looking for. Orcs with Frost-Proof and Arrow-Proof are potential overlords and orcs that kill everything in a few seconds are good fort defenders.

I'd say Beast-proof or slayer as well. No point in the other two if you can just summon a Graug and beat them down.

Yes, I forgot that one. Most orcs don't have all 3 though.

[Panic]

The type of clothing your wearing has a impact on your followers. Certain skills/traits you can boost by wearing these, curse reduction or fire, posion, frost, or a boost to there cooldowns and dps. Some suits are good for pit fights.

[Klokinator]

Here's the lowdown. As a min-maxer and someone experienced with procedural generation, I know that even the most random stuff has ways to beat it. This game is actually more predictable than it seems.

First, an enemy orc at a low level, say level 15, is usually going to be more powerful if you put in some work than one that starts off legendary.

Let's say you have Grug, level 15, with a mortal weakness to Stealth, he's flammable, maybe he has a fear of pinning.

Find another orc, maybe one that looks promising, maybe one you don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about, it doesn't matter really. Run around grabbing Worm orcs, make a death threat to Grug and the other orc. Once to grug, then to the other, then to Grug, etc.

Do this until they are both level 65.

After this, take two or three of your allied orcs, have them target Grug all at once. Bring along a bodyguard too, start a mission targeting Grug, and you should get about 9.5k exp if you kill him, OR if you shame him to a lower level. If you recruit him, it will NOT count and you do not get the EXP.

Here's the trick: Let him kill you a few times.

I usually do three to five times, but it's up to you. He _might_ become epic, but even if he doesn't that's okay. The thing is, the more interactions you have with him, especially where he beats you, the more the system weights him as a 'special' orc. 'Special' orcs are given priority for 'returns from death' random events and such and have an overall higher chance of becoming epic/legendary.

See, when you leveled Grug to 65, the max level, his weaknesses tend to vanish, sometimes almost entirely, or they become 'less potent'. The fear of Pinning will usually disappear, mortal weaknesses almost always vanish or are replaced with lesser weaknesses (Like mortal vulnerability to stealth is replaced by 'weakness to stealth' or it vanishes completely) and stronger traits are added in.

So now that you've died to him 5 times, shame that sucker. He will be a lot stronger, and if you make him your bodyguard, he has a high chance of protecting you from kills, and if he dies, you will have a good chance of him coming back from death. Unfortunately, this system of manipulation makes him also more likely to stab you in the back, but eh... you win some, you lose some.

Anyway, if in the process of this training Grug becomes epic or legendary, you'll find that his epic traits tend to change into something approprite to his current skillset. Randomly generated orcs and lootbox orcs of the epic/legendary varieties are all over the place. I've gotten orcs that start out with flame weapons but also the Poison Master epic trait. It's a bit nonsensical.

Now, if you want, you can abuse my system in other ways. Keep death threating him to 65, shaming him, dying to him, over and over, and you'll get 9.5k exp a pop which helps you level without doing dumb story missions, but also creates homegrown killing machines.

I hope this helped!

[Chocbomb]

Originally posted by Klokinator:

Here's the lowdown. As a min-maxer and someone experienced with procedural generation, I know that even the most random stuff has ways to beat it. This game is actually more predictable than it seems.

First, an enemy orc at a low level, say level 15, is usually going to be more powerful if you put in some work than one that starts off legendary.

Let's say you have Grug, level 15, with a mortal weakness to Stealth, he's flammable, maybe he has a fear of pinning.

Find another orc, maybe one that looks promising, maybe one you don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about, it doesn't matter really. Run around grabbing Worm orcs, make a death threat to Grug and the other orc. Once to grug, then to the other, then to Grug, etc.

Do this until they are both level 65.

After this, take two or three of your allied orcs, have them target Grug all at once. Bring along a bodyguard too, start a mission targeting Grug, and you should get about 9.5k exp if you kill him, OR if you shame him to a lower level.

Here's the trick: Let him kill you a few times.

I usually do three to five times, but it's up to you. He _might_ become epic, but even if he doesn't that's okay. The thing is, the more interactions you have with him, especially where he beats you, the more the system weights him as a 'special' orc. 'Special' orcs are given priority for 'returns from death' random events and such and have an overall higher chance of becoming epic/legendary.

See, when you leveled Grug to 65, the max level, his weaknesses tend to vanish, sometimes almost entirely, or they become 'less potent'. The fear of Pinning will usually disappear, mortal weaknesses almost always vanish or are replaced with lesser weaknesses (Like mortal vulnerability to stealth is replaced by 'weakness to stealth' or it vanishes completely) and stronger traits are added in.

So now that you've died to him 5 times, shame that sucker. He will be a lot stronger, and if you make him your bodyguard, he has a high chance of protecting you from kills, and if he dies, you will have a good chance of him coming back from death. Unfortunately, this system of manipulation makes him also more likely to stab you in the back, but eh... you win some, you lose some.

Anyway, if in the process of this training Grug becomes epic or legendary, you'll find that his epic traits tend to change into something approprite to his current skillset. Randomly generated orcs and lootbox orcs of the epic/legendary varieties are all over the place. I've gotten orcs that start out with flame weapons but also the Poison Master epic trait. It's a bit nonsensical.

Now, if you want, you can abuse my system in other ways. Keep death threating him to 65, shaming him, dying to him, over and over, and you'll get 9.5k exp a pop which helps you level without doing dumb story missions, but also creates homegrown killing machines.

I hope this helped!

Good tips.

This is a dumb system they made..

[Demon of Razgriz]

How is it dumb? You can do cheese like that for any system in any game. That doesn't mean the system is dumb.

[EagleOn3]

It's not a dumb system it's on the contrary pretty well made. If you threaten or have an orc kill you, of course he is going to get better.

XP wise though this is not a good strategy. 10k xp is very little. Watch 2-3 nemesis missions between 2 enemy captains and you'll earn equal or more.

[dEacAN]

For me I've gotten Legendary orcs from Pit Fights. Has already happened to me a few times. I just get a set of orcs to be used for Pit Fights. Different orcs (poison, fire, resist etc) for different orcs I need to counter. You will cycle from random normal orcs to eventually Legendary ones. And when I get to a Legendary Orc with stats I like, I send in a low level useless orc I have in my roster and let him die... after the fight, I quickly jump in, weaken the Legendary Orc and make him mine.