Countering Negative Shame Mechanics

[CastraOil]

So anyone else think they need a way to undo shame mechanics? Not even talking about the derange mechanics. Im just talking about if you shame an orc repeatedly to break Iron Will and he becomes the most useless orc ever. How come leveling him up can't fix him. Just lost a legendary today due to overdone bloodbrother mechanic and had to shame him 6 times to break iron will. Now he is vulnerable to stealth, Mortally Sickly, And Mortally Soft Headed. He's Useless now. Leveling him up 30 levels removed one heavily damaged trait and that was it.

This had also happened with another legendary earlier who just straight up betrayed me. He's not as bad but nowhere near as legendary now.

[jonemirant]

After you remove his iron will, put a death-threat on him and let him kill you. For me at least, sometimes it can get rid of his weaknesses. One time, this orc killed me, he got rid of this mortally flammable weakness and gained a fiery weapon, lol
Oh, and don't use "worst than death", just use the normal shame, even if you have to do it 5 times. Normal shame often doesn't give mortal weakness, but "worst than death" will surely give one.

[CastraOil]

Originally posted by TerminatorX9:

After you remove his iron will, put a death-threat on him and let him kill you. For me at least, sometimes it can get rid of his weaknesses. One time, this orc killed me, he got rid of this mortally flammable weakness and gained a fiery weapon, lol
Oh, and don't use "worst than death", just use the normal shame, even if you have to do it 5 times. Normal shame often doesn't give mortal weakness, but "worst than death" will surely give one.

Thanks for advice. I was using basic shame though. Also encountered a bug earlier where I had the "worse than death" off and somehow deranged a legendary. :( I just can't handle having characters who are mentally broken like that. Does the Death Threat Trick work even if they don't gain levels anymore(are max level?)

[Hawkefire]

No matter what, if you shame an orc there is a chance that they can become deranged.
This can happen even when you don't have worse than death active. It is supposed to be a fairly small chance, but I don't know the exact math behind it. Also, it seems that some types of orcs with iron will (such as those that call themselves Unashamed) seem to be much more likely to become deranged when you break through their iron will.
Edit: I should also mention, supposedly using the worse than death ability makes it more likely that you will remove the iron will trait. In order to ofset the huge level drop and the number of weaknesses that the captain will gain from even using this ability once, I highly recommend death threating the captain every time you are going to shame him.

[jonemirant]

"Does the Death Threat Trick work even if they don't gain levels anymore(are max level?)"

Well, there is no point Death-threating an orc if he is already max level. What i was suggesting is that after you shamed an orc to lower level in order to remove his iron will, you death-threat him and then let him kill you. That can make him stronger and often times remove some of his mortal weaknesses.
Also, in a dead-threat mission, there is a good chance that you can kite him away from his grunts, making it a 1 v 1 battle, which is easier to control; i.e. you won't accidentally died to one of his grunts.
Oh, one problem with this method is that there is always a chance that when you are about to die to your coveted-orc, one of your follower would suddenly appear to be your savior and kill your coveted-orc, which is extremely annoying, but doesn't happen a lot.

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by TerminatorX9:

"Does the Death Threat Trick work even if they don't gain levels anymore(are max level?)"

Well, there is no point Death-threating an orc if he is already max level. What i was suggesting is that after you shamed an orc to lower level in order to remove his iron will, you death-threat him and then let him kill you. That can make him stronger and often times remove some of his mortal weaknesses.
Also, in a dead-threat mission, there is a good chance that you can kite him away from his grunts, making it a 1 v 1 battle, which is easier to control; i.e. you won't accidentally died to one of his grunts.
Oh, one problem with this method is that there is always a chance that when you are about to die to your coveted-orc, one of your follower would suddenly appear to be your savior and kill your coveted-orc, which is extremely annoying, but doesn't happen a lot.

I had this happen to me three times with the same orc. The first time, my thought was "...Well that's annoying... I wanted that guy to kill me so he'd go legendary." The second time, I was doing the same thing to get another guy legendary... same guy kills him to save me. The third time, I went to Minas Morgul to avoid this problem because I had no followers there and no reason to change that. THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ HOPPED REGIONS TO ROB ME OF A GUY I WAS TRYING TO MAKE LEGENDARY.

[CastraOil]

Thanks to all the replies. It's gonna take such a long time building the perfect army :(

[AngryPuppy]

Originally posted by CastraOil:

Thanks to all the replies. It's gonna take such a long time building the perfect army :(

Waste of time. You are going to learn the hard way, the more time you spend "building" your army, the more it hurts when your entire army betrays you.

[jonemirant]

yeah i agree with angry puppy, you best not put too much attachments on them, OP, they are just orcs after-all. Its okay to invest in 1 or maybe 2 to be your designated overlord or bodyguard, but don't spend too much time to do an entire army, you'll never make it without them collapsing on themselves.

# racism # orc-lives don't matter

[Ruiner]

The Iron Will mechanic in this game is so tedious. It's hard enought to find orcs/ologs without bad traits, then when I finally do they both have Iron Will. I've shamed them both 5 times, they both still have Iron Will and now they have too many negative traits to bother with.

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by Ruiner:

The Iron Will mechanic in this game is so tedious. It's hard enought to find orcs/ologs without bad traits, then when I finally do they both have Iron Will. I've shamed them both 5 times, they both still have Iron Will and now they have too many negative traits to bother with.

You can train them back up in the pits, and even when they're max level, they still gain from successful pit fights - to a point, at least - captains who keep winning fights gain added traits (the obvious mount/elemental weapon thing for a start) but also gain immunities and lose weaknesses the more successful they are. I've had a captain that I shamed into uselessness go from 1-60 through pit fights (and from piggybacking off of other captains) but be extremely weak from the shaming, but then get back their strength after a few extra pit fights and missions. I had one guy (now dead, unfortunately, so I can't get a screenie of him :c) who I'd had to shame some 20-30 times to get rid of Iron Will, his mind long since gone from the effort, who was mortally weak to almost literally everything - if he wasn't mortally weak to it, he was terrified of it. He had no strengths save his class/tribe bonuses, he was that pitiful. I had him piggyback off of someone until he hit 60, sent him into his first pit fight, and when he won, he came back out with immunity to executions, ranged, fire, and curse. A couple more times and he was one of those captains with no weaknesses, only things he was damaged by.