Is Talion one of the most powerful persons in Lord of Ring history?

[Gut]

I reviewed the movie and guess that Talion can easily crash the whole army of Gandalf and Gondor, especially after equipping the new ring.

[Director]

Originally posted by WonderMan @Steelseries Power:

Originally posted by Director:

As far as Talion's power; who knows. As far as I know, he isn't even canon so doesn't matter anyway.

"who knows?" You obviously haven't played the game as intended lmao. Talion rekts anyone in J.R.R's universe, and the game was based off the movies as I previously said.

Originally posted by Director:

A machination of the film, completely contradictory to the lore and created only for cinematic tension. The books and the works straight from Tolkien should be the only reference point here. They never fought in the books, had they, Gandalf would've certainly won. In a hypothetical showdown made up by Tolkien himself, Gandalf was the only one that could contend with Sauron if Sauron got the ring.

This scene was only added because Peter Jackson did not care to explain why Éowyn beat the Witch King of Angmar this easily, to show his great power they had to add this Gandalf scene, which was great overall.

"Haven't played the game as intended" What does that even mean? Do you even know what you're talking about? Talion doesn't "rekt" anyone in the First and Second ages. They'd make him look like a child. In the Third Age, a physically embodied Sauron would destroy him. Gandalf the White would destroy him. Saruman would destroy him. So would Galadriel. Elrond, really any of the Elven Kings would destroy him. These are just a handful of those in Tolkien's universe that would stomp him out, relegated to the Third Age. Tolkien's world is a lot more expansive than what we say in just LOTR. Clearly you don't know much about the lore other than what's presented in the film, which isn't much. And again, he isn't canon. So who gives a ♥♥♥♥.

The scene was forced, in an attempt to increase tension at a time where tension was already high. It served virtually no purpose, even in the sense that you explained. Merry snuck up behind him and stabbed him in the leg. No common movie viewer would question it much, only the lore enthusiasts, and they already know the real reason why(Barrow blade)

[Ravenbones]

Originally posted by Gut:

Originally posted by DrkCntry:

Middle-earth Enterprises and SZC aren't the ones who write canon...just FYI

Well, to me LOR is epic enough to become a culture setting like Cthuhlu Mythos.

You mean Middle-Earth lore?

[Sofia]

Third Age Sauron isn't that big a deal. According to Tolkien's letters, he was physically embodied during the final battle of Return of the King. His presence didn't seem to tip that battle that much, nor did he manage to kill any of the main characters. I'm not saying he's a scrub, mind, but Sauron in the Third Age is heavily weakened without the Ring and wouldn't stand a chance against Talion (especially Talion with his own Ring of Power). Sauron WITH the Ring, though, all bets are off. He's a being said to be able to incinerate anyone who gets too close to him, and one touch of his hand instantly killed a legendary elf warrior.

As for Gandalf and Saruman, like I said earlier in the thread, it would come down to who gets the first shot. Technically they're mortal and easy to kill, but if they see you coming you won't have the chance to, meaning Talion's only chance would be a surprise attack.

Hypothetically the Witch King could crush Talion on sole count of his prophecy, but that depends on if Celebrimbor counts as a man??? If the prophecy says 'no man can destroy him', is an elf a man? Is a wraith a man? Talion couldn't beat him, but his ghost friend might be able to.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by Gut:

I reviewed the movie and guess that Talion can easily crash the whole army of Gandalf and Gondor, especially after equipping the new ring.

The entire game wrecks the canon. If we dropped Talion as is from the game into the movies, you are absolutely correct. The fantasy is cranked up to make the game more fun and exciting.

[Director]

Originally posted by Dri:

Third Age Sauron isn't that big a deal. According to Tolkien's letters, he was physically embodied during the final battle of Return of the King. His presence didn't seem to tip that battle that much, nor did he manage to kill any of the main characters. I'm not saying he's a scrub, mind, but Sauron in the Third Age is heavily weakened without the Ring and wouldn't stand a chance against Talion (especially Talion with his own Ring of Power). Sauron WITH the Ring, though, all bets are off. He's a being said to be able to incinerate anyone who gets too close to him, and one touch of his hand instantly killed a legendary elf warrior.

As for Gandalf and Saruman, like I said earlier in the thread, it would come down to who gets the first shot. Technically they're mortal and easy to kill, but if they see you coming you won't have the chance to, meaning Talion's only chance would be a surprise attack.

Hypothetically the Witch King could crush Talion on sole count of his prophecy, but that depends on if Celebrimbor counts as a man??? If the prophecy says 'no man can destroy him', is an elf a man? Is a wraith a man? Talion couldn't beat him, but his ghost friend might be able to.

Tolkien himself said that without the ring, Sauron was NOT weakened. (Letter 131)

Sauron is the strongest of the Maiar. The only two that rival him of his 'race' are Gandalf and Saruman. To say that they are more of a threat to Talion than Sauron is completely contradictory. Talion wouldn't beat any of the three.

[Sofia]

Originally posted by Director:

Originally posted by Dri:

Third Age Sauron isn't that big a deal. According to Tolkien's letters, he was physically embodied during the final battle of Return of the King. His presence didn't seem to tip that battle that much, nor did he manage to kill any of the main characters. I'm not saying he's a scrub, mind, but Sauron in the Third Age is heavily weakened without the Ring and wouldn't stand a chance against Talion (especially Talion with his own Ring of Power). Sauron WITH the Ring, though, all bets are off. He's a being said to be able to incinerate anyone who gets too close to him, and one touch of his hand instantly killed a legendary elf warrior.

As for Gandalf and Saruman, like I said earlier in the thread, it would come down to who gets the first shot. Technically they're mortal and easy to kill, but if they see you coming you won't have the chance to, meaning Talion's only chance would be a surprise attack.

Hypothetically the Witch King could crush Talion on sole count of his prophecy, but that depends on if Celebrimbor counts as a man??? If the prophecy says 'no man can destroy him', is an elf a man? Is a wraith a man? Talion couldn't beat him, but his ghost friend might be able to.

Tolkien himself said that without the ring, Sauron was NOT weakened. (Letter 131)

Sauron is the strongest of the Maiar. The only two that rival him of his 'race' are Gandalf and Saruman. To say that they are more of a threat to Talion than Sauron is completely contradictory. Talion wouldn't beat any of the three.

Except that every other element in the story tells us that Sauron is in fact a shadow of his former self. Gandalf, on numerous occasions, warns that the longer they wait the more power he recovers, and one must be reminded that Gandalf single-handedly banished the Necromancer, unlike the movie version which had him helped by Elrond, Radagast, Saruman and Galadriel.

As well, saying that Saruman and Gandalf can't be beaten is missing the point of their mortal bodies quite a lot. They're as vulnerable to an arrow in the back of the head as anyone else and NOT omniscient. Remember that when Saruman took over the Shire he was ultimately beaten by hobbits without any powers whatsoever. The Wizards are powerful, yes, but they're at the mercy of anything that can kill their bodies. A stealth-specced Talion is the perfect counter to them.

[Director]

Originally posted by Dri:

Originally posted by Director:

Tolkien himself said that without the ring, Sauron was NOT weakened. (Letter 131)

Sauron is the strongest of the Maiar. The only two that rival him of his 'race' are Gandalf and Saruman. To say that they are more of a threat to Talion than Sauron is completely contradictory. Talion wouldn't beat any of the three.

Except that every other element in the story tells us that Sauron is in fact a shadow of his former self. Gandalf, on numerous occasions, warns that the longer they wait the more power he recovers, and one must be reminded that Gandalf single-handedly banished the Necromancer, unlike the movie version which had him helped by Elrond, Radagast, Saruman and Galadriel.

As well, saying that Saruman and Gandalf can't be beaten is missing the point of their mortal bodies quite a lot. They're as vulnerable to an arrow in the back of the head as anyone else and NOT omniscient. Remember that when Saruman took over the Shire he was ultimately beaten by hobbits without any powers whatsoever. The Wizards are powerful, yes, but they're at the mercy of anything that can kill their bodies. A stealth-specced Talion is the perfect counter to them.

I'm not saying that Sauron wasn't weakened in the story. I'm saying without the ring, he is still of the same power level IE incredibly powerful. With the ring, he was more powerful. This came from Tolkien himself.

The exact line from Letter 131: "While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in ‘rapport’ with himself: he was not ‘diminished’."

Besides, Gandalf might not be referring to physical power, and is more likely that he's talking about the power in his armies as Sauron can ♥♥♥♥ out thousands of orcs. The longer the forces of Men wait, the more one-sided their conflict becomes.

And again, I'm not saying Saruman and Gandalf can't be beaten. But they won't be beaten by Talion. From my take of it, their power levels differ depending on what they're taking on. A knife can kill Saruman. But Gandalf can tank several hits from a Balrog. Their power levels are not as black and white as they appear.

[liljay273]

I'm sorry Talion is not so much weaker than Gandalf. If Celebrimbor can combat Sauron then Talion with a ring of power can stop Gandalf. Spoilers but Celebrimbor power is immense and is shown in the ending

[TarPalantir24]

Originally posted by Dri:

Third Age Sauron isn't that big a deal. According to Tolkien's letters, he was physically embodied during the final battle of Return of the King. His presence didn't seem to tip that battle that much, nor did he manage to kill any of the main characters.

While Sauron had a body during the War of the Ring, he did not and would never except in the most dire circumstances participate in batlle.

[Gaunty]

Originally posted by Darkmuninn:

Originally posted by Toaster Maximus:

Good thing the shadow series is more fan fiction then anything else.

actually, it's canon, approved by Middle Earth Enterprises themselves.

De Plater has explicity gone on record to say that the games are not in the same universe as the books. And if they're in the same universe as the films, I'd assume a lot of liberties were taken and a lot was 'altered' in order to make a good game.

[🐈TinyLilAsian🐈]

Originally posted by Gut:

I reviewed the movie and guess that Talion can easily crash the whole army of Gandalf and Gondor, especially after equipping the new ring.

Depends on your description of power and whether or not if you include immortal beings.


Excluding immortal beings, the most powerful """person""" in history is mostlikely Beren, even if you include talion in the universe.

[The Captain Of Nothing]

Originally posted by Director:

Originally posted by WonderMan @Steelseries Power:

"who knows?" You obviously haven't played the game as intended lmao. Talion rekts anyone in J.R.R's universe, and the game was based off the movies as I previously said.



This scene was only added because Peter Jackson did not care to explain why Éowyn beat the Witch King of Angmar this easily, to show his great power they had to add this Gandalf scene, which was great overall.

"Haven't played the game as intended" What does that even mean? Do you even know what you're talking about? Talion doesn't "rekt" anyone in the First and Second ages. They'd make him look like a child. In the Third Age, a physically embodied Sauron would destroy him. Gandalf the White would destroy him. Saruman would destroy him. So would Galadriel. Elrond, really any of the Elven Kings would destroy him. These are just a handful of those in Tolkien's universe that would stomp him out, relegated to the Third Age. Tolkien's world is a lot more expansive than what we say in just LOTR. Clearly you don't know much about the lore other than what's presented in the film, which isn't much. And again, he isn't canon. So who gives a ♥♥♥♥.

You played 24 hours of SoM, you unlocked 32 achievements which means you stopped the game once you beaten the story, you obviously did not unlock every skills and your highest combos prolly be like 50-80, I can easily reach 200 to 500 combos without getting hit a single time.

You clearly speak only about the books when the whole thing was mostly based off the movies. And in any ways it's way more different than just the books and the movies, in SoW he will be 10 times more powerful than anyone in middle earth universe and again this has nothing to see with the books, we wouldn't even be arguing if it was only about the books.

And you obviously do give a ♥♥♥♥ otherwise you wouldn't be replying.
This is way more evolved than anything published by Tolkien, you need to move on.

Or just stick with the books if you don't like what became Tolkien's universe because again Talion & Celebrimbor are way more powerful than anything ever shown in the books.

[Director]

Originally posted by WonderMan @Steelseries Power:

Originally posted by Director:

"Haven't played the game as intended" What does that even mean? Do you even know what you're talking about? Talion doesn't "rekt" anyone in the First and Second ages. They'd make him look like a child. In the Third Age, a physically embodied Sauron would destroy him. Gandalf the White would destroy him. Saruman would destroy him. So would Galadriel. Elrond, really any of the Elven Kings would destroy him. These are just a handful of those in Tolkien's universe that would stomp him out, relegated to the Third Age. Tolkien's world is a lot more expansive than what we say in just LOTR. Clearly you don't know much about the lore other than what's presented in the film, which isn't much. And again, he isn't canon. So who gives a ♥♥♥♥.

You played 24 hours of SoM, you unlocked 32 achievements which means you stopped the game once you beaten the story, you obviously did not unlock every skills and your highest combos prolly be like 50-80, I can easily reach 200 to 500 combos without getting hit a single time.

You clearly speak only about the books when the whole thing was mostly based off the movies. And in any ways it's way more different than just the books and the movies, in SoW he will be 10 times more powerful than anyone in middle earth universe and again this has nothing to see with the books, we wouldn't even be arguing if it was only about the books.

And you obviously do give a ♥♥♥♥ otherwise you wouldn't be replying.
This is way more evolved than anything published by Tolkien, you need to move on.

Or just stick with the books if you don't like what became Tolkien's universe because again Talion & Celebrimbor are way more powerful than anything ever shown in the books.

I only recently got it on PC. I've logged in well over a hundred hours on PS4 and did everything there was to do, the rest was filled in. The rest of that paragraph... I don't really give a ♥♥♥♥ about. How "high" you can get your combos is completely irrelevant to this discussion and I have no idea why you decided to mention it.

Obviously I clearly speak about the books. You say that like it's somehow a bad thing. That's where all the lore comes from. That's where you'd get all points of reference if you were to compare Talion with any other character. Without the books, this bastardization of the universe wouldn't even exist, and neither would the films. You owe literally everything to the books you ignoramus. And regardless, there's obscure lore in SoM that were in the books and never mentioned in the films. Seriously, it pays to know what you're talking about so you don't look like an ignorant fool.

I only gave a ♥♥♥♥ when actual lore started being talked about. The question of "Talion vs..." doesn't interest me at all. "More evolved"? What the ♥♥♥♥ are you even talking about? Are you just trolling? Or are you underage? The writing in this series is so vastly inferior to Tolkien's works, it's almost laughable. Have you even read any of them? Like even a passage? Tolkien created whole languages in the books. You can barely even speak one coherently so I'm not sure you'd even understand the significance of that.

I can see that you don't actually understand... well, really anything about the lore this video game is based off of so any further arguments is entirely pointless. Further replies will just be left unread and disregarded. I'll save the effort for something more worthwhile.

[Darkmuninn]

Originally posted by DrkCntry:

Originally posted by Roderick:

Sure? I googled a bit and think WB has the licence to use LotR names and others, but not to extend the story. Oo

The Tolkien Estate is the sole creator of what is canon. SZC/Middle-earth Ent hold licensing rights for Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, nothing else.

Tolkien Enterprise became Middle Earth Enterprise, and they are the Tolkien estate.

[Maziga]

Originally posted by Darkmuninn:

Originally posted by DrkCntry:

The Tolkien Estate is the sole creator of what is canon. SZC/Middle-earth Ent hold licensing rights for Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, nothing else.

Tolkien Enterprise became Middle Earth Enterprise, and they are the Tolkien estate.

No, Tolkien Enterprises became Middle Earth Enterprises, a subdivision of the Saul Zaentz company. The Tolkien Estate is a totally different entity, highlighted by the fact that they sued Middle Earth Enterprises for copyright infringement and a bunch of other stuff.