Inconsitency with Talion as a Nazgul

[Kiyohime]

Ugghh so when Talion becomes a nazgul (act iv) he has some new abilities and loses the elven rage... that's fine.... but i'd like to point out the inconsistency of this transition.

1. Elf shot.
- its totally wrong, he's a nazgul now. So it should be different. Let's say morgul shot or nazgul shot.

2. Elven Light
- Come on, Celebrimbor is not with him anymore. Should have been replaced with Nazgul Shadow or Nazgul Darkness (not good with naming moves)

3. Some Orcs still refer to him as the bright lord. Are they really that dumb.

4. I believe the glaive belongs to Gil-galad and it was yielded by Celebrimbor not Talion in wraith form. So I wonder why Talion can still use it.

5. Some of celebrimbor's abilities should be changed for story's sake since it makes me wonder how can Talion still use some of Celeb's moves if he's not there.

Not saying to change the abilities. RENAMING it to match his nazgul theme...
I think the Devs overlooked this part on ACT IV.

Just a random rant from a keen observer.

[The Average Ivy Enjoyer]

1: In a sense, the Elf-Shot is apart of the Wraith-World, supposedly the Wraith-World is a type of overlapping plane of existance of which the very past effects it, arrows from Elven Archers would of probably been the most effecting, considering Elves are Immortal in Tolkein's world.


2: Talion is technically dead like the Nazgul which theoretically opens the gateway of using the Wraith abilities, supposedly his experience in the Wraith-World (Which is likely a type of plane of existance overlapping Middle-Earth and is a collective of past and memory), likely "remembers" these skills of the Wraith, for he's still able to interact with the Wraith-World.


3: Supposedly no Orc has ever been in Barad-Dur, so It's highly doubtful that the Orcs even know that Celebrimbor is merged with the Flaming Eye, and Talion is still one half of the Duo-Bright Lord, it makes sense for him to carry the same dominating title that Orcs are afraid of and revere so much when they're his allies.


4: Gil-Galad was supposedly lost when it's original owner had died or something? Celebrimbor likely came to wield it's Wraith-World form thingy with how the past and memories always seem to be both apart of the Wraith Celebrimbor (his past in SoM), and Memories you can find of Shelob. So in theoretical note, the Wraith-World can hold many things that people who can peer into it can just outright use and wield, theoretically.


5: Perhaps the Nazgul cannot "Interact" With the Wraith World as much as an/the actual Wraith (Celebrimbor) can? Maybe he could interact more closely like Elf-Shot etc and the Nazgul can still utilise Wraith-abilities they've experienced, learnt etc, which they would have few of excluding the minor teleport or "go back to Barad-Dur, y'got rekt Ringboi", but they can't really percieve any new abilities or memories to gain new skills? Theoretically that is.

Since Talion has experienced all of these abilities, Memories and such with Celebrimbor at that time, so it's pretty theoretically likely that you need the assistance of a Wraith to gain such abilities or skills, a Wraith that is deeply tied to the Wraith-World that is, like Celebrimbor, unlike the Wraiths of Gondor which basically stayed in a tomb for a long time.

So in a sense Talion doesn't gain anything new after Celebrimbor is gone, he can only use the memories and past identifications of what he has witnessed through the Wraith-World while a Wraith like Celebrimbor has enabled him to use certain aspects of the Wraith-World.

[DarkLordReturned]

still it's off putting in many cases....and i don'yt like being called the bright lord. also 1. wraith shot. 2. Wraith flash 3. just....it bugs me stop it. 4. Ratak has a valid point.

[Netatsake]

1) Wraith shot.
2) Presence of Death
3) A lot of them do, yes, but for all intents, the 'Bright Lord' is dead at that point in time, even if it's said he's fighting Sauron. He isn't, he loses that fight. So given you're basically doing the same thing, yeah, you're the Bright Lord. It does break consistency a little though, admittedly.
4) Given the amount of time Celebrimbor persisted in Talion's body, any number of things could have become a part of him when Celebrimbor left and Talion became a Nazgul proper. It may also be something that came with Isildur's ring. Given he can still use Celebrimbor's wraith bow/hammer even after losing the ass, it's not much of a stretch to give him the glaive as well as a wraith power.

I do wish there had been an option (post-shadow wars) to switch back to Bright Lord Talion and make use of Elven Rage once again. Otherwise, Bright Lord armor makes no sense to have postgame unless you're just using it for all the added ice and focus management. =/

[Kiyohime]

Originally posted by Ratak Warmonger:

1: In a sense, the Elf-Shot is apart of the Wraith-World, supposedly the Wraith-World is a type of overlapping plane of existance of which the very past effects it, arrows from Elven Archers would of probably been the most effecting, considering Elves are Immortal in Tolkein's world.


2: Talion is technically dead like the Nazgul which theoretically opens the gateway of using the Wraith abilities, supposedly his experience in the Wraith-World (Which is likely a type of plane of existance overlapping Middle-Earth and is a collective of past and memory), likely "remembers" these skills of the Wraith, for he's still able to interact with the Wraith-World.


3: Supposedly no Orc has ever been in Barad-Dur, so It's highly doubtful that the Orcs even know that Celebrimbor is merged with the Flaming Eye, and Talion is still one half of the Duo-Bright Lord, it makes sense for him to carry the same dominating title that Orcs are afraid of and revere so much when they're his allies.


4: Gil-Galad was supposedly lost when it's original owner had died or something? Celebrimbor likely came to wield it's Wraith-World form thingy with how the past and memories always seem to be both apart of the Wraith Celebrimbor (his past in SoM), and Memories you can find of Shelob. So in theoretical note, the Wraith-World can hold many things that people who can peer into it can just outright use and wield, theoretically.


5: Perhaps the Nazgul cannot "Interact" With the Wraith World as much as an/the actual Wraith (Celebrimbor) can? Maybe he could interact more closely like Elf-Shot etc and the Nazgul can still utilise Wraith-abilities they've experienced, learnt etc, which they would have few of excluding the minor teleport or "go back to Barad-Dur, y'got rekt Ringboi", but they can't really percieve any new abilities or memories to gain new skills? Theoretically that is.

Since Talion has experienced all of these abilities, Memories and such with Celebrimbor at that time, so it's pretty theoretically likely that you need the assistance of a Wraith to gain such abilities or skills, a Wraith that is deeply tied to the Wraith-World that is, like Celebrimbor, unlike the Wraiths of Gondor which basically stayed in a tomb for a long time.

So in a sense Talion doesn't gain anything new after Celebrimbor is gone, he can only use the memories and past identifications of what he has witnessed through the Wraith-World while a Wraith like Celebrimbor has enabled him to use certain aspects of the Wraith-World.

This makes sense, so to sum it up. Talion somehow retained Celeb's abilities through the wraith world via Nazgul powers which can also access the wraith world (wraith world is like a world between the living and the dead. So Talion has elven and nazgul abilities in ACT IV. Fair enough though sometimes the names is really kinda off the mark...

And same rant, please someone from the devs...put a voice in nazgul talion. So sick of his moans when dominating an orc.

[Netatsake]

Originally posted by uchiha_sander:

Originally posted by Ratak Warmonger:

1: In a sense, the Elf-Shot is apart of the Wraith-World, supposedly the Wraith-World is a type of overlapping plane of existance of which the very past effects it, arrows from Elven Archers would of probably been the most effecting, considering Elves are Immortal in Tolkein's world.


2: Talion is technically dead like the Nazgul which theoretically opens the gateway of using the Wraith abilities, supposedly his experience in the Wraith-World (Which is likely a type of plane of existance overlapping Middle-Earth and is a collective of past and memory), likely "remembers" these skills of the Wraith, for he's still able to interact with the Wraith-World.


3: Supposedly no Orc has ever been in Barad-Dur, so It's highly doubtful that the Orcs even know that Celebrimbor is merged with the Flaming Eye, and Talion is still one half of the Duo-Bright Lord, it makes sense for him to carry the same dominating title that Orcs are afraid of and revere so much when they're his allies.


4: Gil-Galad was supposedly lost when it's original owner had died or something? Celebrimbor likely came to wield it's Wraith-World form thingy with how the past and memories always seem to be both apart of the Wraith Celebrimbor (his past in SoM), and Memories you can find of Shelob. So in theoretical note, the Wraith-World can hold many things that people who can peer into it can just outright use and wield, theoretically.


5: Perhaps the Nazgul cannot "Interact" With the Wraith World as much as an/the actual Wraith (Celebrimbor) can? Maybe he could interact more closely like Elf-Shot etc and the Nazgul can still utilise Wraith-abilities they've experienced, learnt etc, which they would have few of excluding the minor teleport or "go back to Barad-Dur, y'got rekt Ringboi", but they can't really percieve any new abilities or memories to gain new skills? Theoretically that is.

Since Talion has experienced all of these abilities, Memories and such with Celebrimbor at that time, so it's pretty theoretically likely that you need the assistance of a Wraith to gain such abilities or skills, a Wraith that is deeply tied to the Wraith-World that is, like Celebrimbor, unlike the Wraiths of Gondor which basically stayed in a tomb for a long time.

So in a sense Talion doesn't gain anything new after Celebrimbor is gone, he can only use the memories and past identifications of what he has witnessed through the Wraith-World while a Wraith like Celebrimbor has enabled him to use certain aspects of the Wraith-World.

This makes sense, so to sum it up. Talion somehow retained Celeb's abilities through the wraith world via Nazgul powers which can also access the wraith world (wraith world is like a world between the living and the dead. So Talion has elven and nazgul abilities in ACT IV. Fair enough though sometimes the names is really kinda off the mark...

And same rant, please someone from the devs...put a voice in nazgul talion. So sick of his moans when dominating an orc.

Talion: Constipated grunting.
Nazoth the Unrelenting: I serve the Bright Lord!

[Smile]

Originally posted by uchiha_sander:

Ugghh so when Talion becomes a nazgul (act iv) he has some new abilities and loses the elven rage... that's fine.... but i'd like to point out the inconsistency of this transition.

1. Elf shot.
- its totally wrong, he's a nazgul now. So it should be different. Let's say morgul shot or nazgul shot.

2. Elven Light
- Come on, Celebrimbor is not with him anymore. Should have been replaced with Nazgul Shadow or Nazgul Darkness (not good with naming moves)

3. Some Orcs still refer to him as the bright lord. Are they really that dumb.

4. I believe the glaive belongs to Gil-galad and it was yielded by Celebrimbor not Talion in wraith form. So I wonder why Talion can still use it.

5. Some of celebrimbor's abilities should be changed for story's sake since it makes me wonder how can Talion still use some of Celeb's moves if he's not there.

Not saying to change the abilities. RENAMING it to match his nazgul theme...
I think the Devs overlooked this part on ACT IV.

Just a random rant from a keen observer.

they'll say some ♥♥♥♥ like "celebrimbor left a mark on talion" just accept it.

[Varlus]

Originally posted by uchiha_sander:

Ugghh so when Talion becomes a nazgul (act iv) he has some new abilities and loses the elven rage... that's fine.... but i'd like to point out the inconsistency of this transition.

1. Elf shot.
- its totally wrong, he's a nazgul now. So it should be different. Let's say morgul shot or nazgul shot.

2. Elven Light
- Come on, Celebrimbor is not with him anymore. Should have been replaced with Nazgul Shadow or Nazgul Darkness (not good with naming moves)

3. Some Orcs still refer to him as the bright lord. Are they really that dumb.

4. I believe the glaive belongs to Gil-galad and it was yielded by Celebrimbor not Talion in wraith form. So I wonder why Talion can still use it.

5. Some of celebrimbor's abilities should be changed for story's sake since it makes me wonder how can Talion still use some of Celeb's moves if he's not there.

Not saying to change the abilities. RENAMING it to match his nazgul theme...
I think the Devs overlooked this part on ACT IV.

Just a random rant from a keen observer.

well okay, the names could have changed, but I wanted to point out, that the Bright Lord thing makes sense. The Orcs always only saw Talion as the Bright Lord, remember, you are not supposed to see Cele. Thats why it is mentioned, when People do. They are shocked, that gollum could see you in the first game and they were shocked when eltariel could see you. For all we know, the only Person that the Orcs saw when Cele talked to them, was Talion. It makes sense, that he gained that title because of that. Yes, Cele is the Bright Lord, they only saw the Gravewalker yelling he is the Bright Lord.

To your other points, yes it doesnt really make sense that you keep the glaive or some of celes powers and abilities, but be honest...would you prefer to take these away from you?

[Epic Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by Varlus:

Originally posted by uchiha_sander:

Ugghh so when Talion becomes a nazgul (act iv) he has some new abilities and loses the elven rage... that's fine.... but i'd like to point out the inconsistency of this transition.

1. Elf shot.
- its totally wrong, he's a nazgul now. So it should be different. Let's say morgul shot or nazgul shot.

2. Elven Light
- Come on, Celebrimbor is not with him anymore. Should have been replaced with Nazgul Shadow or Nazgul Darkness (not good with naming moves)

3. Some Orcs still refer to him as the bright lord. Are they really that dumb.

4. I believe the glaive belongs to Gil-galad and it was yielded by Celebrimbor not Talion in wraith form. So I wonder why Talion can still use it.

5. Some of celebrimbor's abilities should be changed for story's sake since it makes me wonder how can Talion still use some of Celeb's moves if he's not there.

Not saying to change the abilities. RENAMING it to match his nazgul theme...
I think the Devs overlooked this part on ACT IV.

Just a random rant from a keen observer.

well okay, the names could have changed, but I wanted to point out, that the Bright Lord thing makes sense. The Orcs always only saw Talion as the Bright Lord, remember, you are not supposed to see Cele. Thats why it is mentioned, when People do. They are shocked, that gollum could see you in the first game and they were shocked when eltariel could see you. For all we know, the only Person that the Orcs saw when Cele talked to them, was Talion. It makes sense, that he gained that title because of that. Yes, Cele is the Bright Lord, they only saw the Gravewalker yelling he is the Bright Lord.

To your other points, yes it doesnt really make sense that you keep the glaive or some of celes powers and abilities, but be honest...would you prefer to take these away from you?

On the elf shot I always saw it as Talion just summoning the wraith form/memory of Helm's hammer (as it is in fact cannon he uses it as seen in the DLC foght with him) making it his power not Cele's (and theres reason to suspect all Wraith's Nazgul included can summon weapons from the wraith world) as for the glasses I never use it so remove it or don't I don't care and for elven light well idk just rename it to Wraith flash or something problem solved