Am I the only person who agrees with Celebrimbor and hates Talion?

[cows rule]

Celebrimbor as bright lord would have saved middle earth

[RasaNova]

This is actually an interesting topic, at least it was before it got stupid.

Personally, I agree that Celibrimbor is the more interesting and intelligent person, but ultimately he would have just been the next Sauron. Only worse, as he would have had the full power of the new ring, and would not have had Talion keeping him at bay for 20 years.

What WOULD have been best for middle earth, is if in the very beginning of SoW Talion did NOT give the ring to Shelob, and instead let her keep Celebrimbor to kill/torture/play cards or whatever. Then the ending would have been the sun rising over a blue sky above Mordor, and Talion & Eterial would have high-fived after defetating the 9+Sauron and rode off for a lifetime of rom-com shenanagins together.

[Shingdude | Ham Mafia |]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

This is actually an interesting topic, at least it was before it got stupid.

Personally, I agree that Celibrimbor is the more interesting and intelligent person, but ultimately he would have just been the next Sauron. Only worse, as he would have had the full power of the new ring, and would not have had Talion keeping him at bay for 20 years.

What WOULD have been best for middle earth, is if in the very beginning of SoW Talion did NOT give the ring to Shelob, and instead let her keep Celebrimbor to kill/torture/play cards or whatever. Then the ending would have been the sun rising over a blue sky above Mordor, and Talion & Eterial would have high-fived after defetating the 9+Sauron and rode off for a lifetime of rom-com shenanagins together.

the only way to save middle-earth! XD that would have been funny

[spectre199]

dude Sauron and Celebrimbor are 100% the same, Sauron wants to conqueror everything and Celebrimbor does as well and Talion realizes that Celebrimbor is the same as Sauron and doing nothing but switching one master for another. Celebrimbor is doing exactly the same thing Sauron did enslaving that Nazgul which was wrong and Talion realizes that

All would have happened is place someone far worse than Sauron as the leader and that would be Celebrimbor he is far worse. Also Celebrimbor is the one who betrayed Talion

there is a complete difference between a dictatorship and monarchies

[thegodsend]

if by better u mean a mass murdering tyrannical dictator with a thrust for power, then sure. cuz thats what would have happened if the spider lady didnt change the course for the future

[hermanJnr.]

If Celebrimbor had never taken the One Ring from Sauron in his first rebellion, there is a chance perhaps that he would have been able to destroy Sauron without it and genuinely perform an act of good for all of Middle-Earth.

Sam and Frodo barely wore the ring, and they had a natural resistance to it...and yet it totally poisoned their minds over a short time, to the point that Frodo refused to destroy it.

Celebrimbor WORE THE RING FOR HIS WHOLE REBELLION and presumably never took it off. Imagine the absolutely awful effect that must have had on his mind.

The Bright Lord DLC in the first game basically had him rapidly progress in his goals after wearing the ring from:
"I will save my family and kill Sauron." --> "I will kill Sauron." --> "I will break Sauron and bring "order" to Middle Earth."

Unfortunately I imagine that stain the ring put on his soul never healed, which is why he is so blind in SoW and makes another ring. He has been damaged by the power of the original, and corrupted by it.

The game is not subtle in presenting this. You are utterly brutal and ruthless to the Uruks (as Sauron is), you replace the Sauron Haedir tower evil flaming eye with your own huge evil flaming eye and Bruz even comments "Bright Lord, Dark Lord...same thing, really."

[Shingdude | Ham Mafia |]

Originally posted by ^3Deus ^2Vult ^6Infidel:

Celebrimbor as bright lord would have saved middle earth

did you not listen to bruz when you first recruited him: ''Bright Lord. Dark Lord. Same thing, really."

[Krono]

Originally posted by ^3Deus ^2Vult ^6Infidel:

Good men dont make good Rulers.

Good men can make good rulers, Talion has proven himself to be able to make hard choices. On the other hand, racist narcicisstic genocidal maniacs pretty generally make bad rulers in the opinion of everyone but themselves and a few weirdoes on the internet

[ZyF]

If Celebrimbor wanted to rule Middle Earth, why did he not make a ring for himself (back when he was alive) and instead distributed the rings to Sauron et al?

[Krono]

Originally posted by ZyF:

If Celebrimbor wanted to rule Middle Earth, why did he not make a ring for himself (back when he was alive) and instead distributed the rings to Sauron et al?

Celebrimbor originally didn't want to rule Middle Earth. He was already an incredibly powerful elf lord, why would he care? Sauron came to him and suggested the rings though, helping him with the forging techniques and secretly putting his essence into The Ring. He then betrayed Celebrimbor, kidnapping his family and ambushing him, but Celebrimbor got away with The Ring. Celebrimbor assembled his army to fight Sauron, but the ring did its thing and corrupted him in the process. As mentioned earlier, Celebrimbor went from "Stop Sauron and save my family" to "Kill Sauron" to "Dominate Sauron and bring Middle Earth to 'order'" throughout his little dlc

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by ZyF:

If Celebrimbor wanted to rule Middle Earth, why did he not make a ring for himself (back when he was alive) and instead distributed the rings to Sauron et al?

Well it's complicated... Short version is, at the time he didn't want to rule middle earth, and he thought Sauron was a decent guy.

[Derrame]

Originally posted by Angelous Wang:

He would have saved everyone exactly the same was Sauron would have saved everyone.

He would have mind enslaved the entire Middle Earth.

That one way to stop all wars I guess ... so is nuking the planet. Not something I am on board with.

Also Talion spent "decades" single handedly holdin back Sauron whilst being ever consumed by the ring in order to save Gondor ... he could have just died the second Celebrimbor abadoned him and gone happly into the after lifer then a there. Instead he chose to suffer to prevent the suffering of others.

sauron wanted to kill
celebrimbor does not want to mind enslave anyone
only destroy/replace sauron

[Galath]

I totally agree, I want him back, talion is trash.

[Salvation_crucifix]

Originally posted by TheWayfaringSage:

Anyone remember when Talion just handed over the new ring to a sexy Shelob with no second thought?

Hey, who wouldn't, amirite? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Darth Maudrek]

Originally posted by vegeta's moustache:

Originally posted by ZyF:

If Celebrimbor wanted to rule Middle Earth, why did he not make a ring for himself (back when he was alive) and instead distributed the rings to Sauron et al?

Celebrimbor is a very skilled craftsman, it was his profession in life. It was not always his intention to rule. Sauron came to him and other smiths, and tricked them into creating the rings of power in an offer of instructing them in the craft of ring-making. It's important to note that Celebrimbor did not make the One Ring, Sauron did so in secret.

Celebrimbor was corrupted by the One Ring when he attempted to use it to overtake Sauron. He did not understand its nature, and underestimated the sentience of the ring's loyalty to its master due to containing a large portion of Sauron's soul; it stained him in Sauron's color and changed him forever.

Edit: Oh pft, other people already answered the question. Oh well...
Also, it's important to note that the game's lore differs a bit from what I mentioned with Sauron making the One Ring alone, but it's quite similar; only changed for the sake of enabling Celebrimbor to rebel for gameplay.

If I recall correctly, in the first game Sauron does indeed make his ring in secret by himself but it glows with power like a magnesium flare... So he kidnaps Celebrimbor and family to force Celebrimbor to modify the ring so it's "cloaked". During that modification is when Celebrimbor steals the ring and starts his war against Sauron.

[Ritter Salbei]

Originally posted by chrisbutler2765:

Originally posted by TheWayfaringSage:

Anyone remember when Talion just handed over the new ring to a sexy Shelob with no second thought?

Hey, who wouldn't, amirite? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Uhhh no just... no.