Last Word

Last Word

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mappel4 Nov 11, 2015 @ 1:44am
That ending [SPOILERS for 'best' ending]
It's so strange how much one small detail between two endings can make such a difference, huh?

I just finished Last Word with the Hidden Word Lv. 6 ending, and what popped up in the very end just blew my mind. I thought that, from the original ending, he was simply overwhelmed by the Last Word, but then the truth decided to show up, too...

Thoughts?
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
sharien (he/him) Dec 23, 2015 @ 12:45am 
the whole time after i accused him and he delivered his talk and whatsnot...i was thinking: why are they buying this? there is no guarantee he is telling the truth...but i guess he seems like kind of a good guy? maybe? and then at the end i went all "I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ KNEW IT!" its pretty cool...but it kinda makes me wonder if there is another hidden ending...especially since there were quite a few things i couldnt find(tho the missing wine label is probably smashed..)
Glue Beard Dec 27, 2015 @ 10:22pm 
I know! I knew he was lying aaaaaaaah! So frustrating! Is there any way we can show that he is immune to the rest? I mean, he said that he threw it down the toilet but the General was in there the whole time and she even accused him of lying! Otherwise he is just going to dominate the world with the word. I hope this is sequel bait, it's gooooood.
Hobbes Dec 28, 2015 @ 7:32pm 
Right?
That bastard, I knew he still had it! There was no way he was just going to throw it away like that, man I wanted it for myself! Like Tevaga said, I hope we get another game, I want to get that thing back. :behappy:
Merlandese  [developer] Dec 29, 2015 @ 10:09am 
Oh-ho!
mappel4 Dec 29, 2015 @ 12:13pm 
@Merlandese

sequeeeeel!
Imas Feb 21, 2016 @ 3:25pm 
I kind of want to believe that Whitty just played along with his story for some reason... I mean, why the hell would she buy him throwing it away just like that, without any proof?

Maybe she figured since he was a judge on top of nobility and they all are oh-so civilized, there's no way in hell they would just body-search him for the darn stone. As far as I understand the setting, the only way to force him to cough it up would be to either command him after getting the last word in a discourse (fat chance for that since he has the stone) or somehow have absolute proof that he didn't flush it after all (Phoenix Wright style).

Maybe she figured that if she keeps pressing the matter but can't force him to part with the stone, he'll just eventually silence her? So it's better to play along with the obvious lie until she can figure out how to get it back?

I could understand everyone else being compelled by the Last Word to not question his story... but if thats not the case and everyone just believes his story just like that (including Whitty)... that would be just really stupid :-/

I loved the game, but this "true" ending is just... urgh...
Last edited by Imas; Feb 21, 2016 @ 3:28pm
mappel4 Feb 23, 2016 @ 6:56pm 
Originally posted by Imas:
I kind of want to believe that Whitty just played along with his story for some reason... I mean, why the hell would she buy him throwing it away just like that, without any proof?

Maybe she figured since he was a judge on top of nobility and they all are oh-so civilized, there's no way in hell they would just body-search him for the darn stone. As far as I understand the setting, the only way to force him to cough it up would be to either command him after getting the last word in a discourse (fat chance for that since he has the stone) or somehow have absolute proof that he didn't flush it after all (Phoenix Wright style).

Maybe she figured that if she keeps pressing the matter but can't force him to part with the stone, he'll just eventually silence her? So it's better to play along with the obvious lie until she can figure out how to get it back?

I could understand everyone else being compelled by the Last Word to not question his story... but if thats not the case and everyone just believes his story just like that (including Whitty)... that would be just really stupid :-/

I loved the game, but this "true" ending is just... urgh...

Think about the nature of the artefact that he possesses.

He has the power to have the Last Word in a conversation--which naturally means an unnatural level of charisma. Would it be so hard for someone with the power to have the Last Word in ANY conversation to be able to pull something like that off?

The reason that he got away with the "obvious lie" is not because it was obvious at all. In that world, they all pretty much had no choice but to take it as fact, because of the power of the artefact at hand.

...at least, that's what I got from it. Your idea could certainly be different from mine.
Imas Feb 23, 2016 @ 9:51pm 
Originally posted by mappel4:
Originally posted by Imas:
I kind of want to believe that Whitty just played along with his story for some reason... I mean, why the hell would she buy him throwing it away just like that, without any proof?

Maybe she figured since he was a judge on top of nobility and they all are oh-so civilized, there's no way in hell they would just body-search him for the darn stone. As far as I understand the setting, the only way to force him to cough it up would be to either command him after getting the last word in a discourse (fat chance for that since he has the stone) or somehow have absolute proof that he didn't flush it after all (Phoenix Wright style).

Maybe she figured that if she keeps pressing the matter but can't force him to part with the stone, he'll just eventually silence her? So it's better to play along with the obvious lie until she can figure out how to get it back?

I could understand everyone else being compelled by the Last Word to not question his story... but if thats not the case and everyone just believes his story just like that (including Whitty)... that would be just really stupid :-/

I loved the game, but this "true" ending is just... urgh...

Think about the nature of the artefact that he possesses.

He has the power to have the Last Word in a conversation--which naturally means an unnatural level of charisma. Would it be so hard for someone with the power to have the Last Word in ANY conversation to be able to pull something like that off?

The reason that he got away with the "obvious lie" is not because it was obvious at all. In that world, they all pretty much had no choice but to take it as fact, because of the power of the artefact at hand.

...at least, that's what I got from it. Your idea could certainly be different from mine.

Wouldn't Whitty still have been 'IMMUNE' then? As far as I get it, the reproduced Last Word gives you the same immunity, it just quickly deteriorates...
mappel4 Feb 23, 2016 @ 11:19pm 
Originally posted by Imas:
Originally posted by mappel4:

Think about the nature of the artefact that he possesses.

He has the power to have the Last Word in a conversation--which naturally means an unnatural level of charisma. Would it be so hard for someone with the power to have the Last Word in ANY conversation to be able to pull something like that off?

The reason that he got away with the "obvious lie" is not because it was obvious at all. In that world, they all pretty much had no choice but to take it as fact, because of the power of the artefact at hand.

...at least, that's what I got from it. Your idea could certainly be different from mine.

Wouldn't Whitty still have been 'IMMUNE' then? As far as I get it, the reproduced Last Word gives you the same immunity, it just quickly deteriorates...

And here's where we have an infinite logic loop. The infamous Unstoppable Sword meets Impenetrable Shield problem. Here we go.

One warrior possesses an Unstoppable Sword. Another possesses an Impenetrable Shield. When the Unstoppable Sword meets the Impenetrable Shield, what happens? If the Unstoppable Sword were to be deflected, or if it were to break, then the Unstoppable Sword would then become stoppable--meaning, that solution is impossible. However, if the Unstoppable Sword were to break or push aside the Impenetrable Shield, then said shield would become penetrable, and that's impossible as well.

Now, the Last Word acts as both an Unstoppable Sword (in the Last Word ability), and an Impenetrable Shield (in the Immunity passive). And in this case, we have two warriors with both the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield. And in the end, our good friend the Judge's Unstoppable Sword meets our good friend Whitty's Impenetrable Shield. So, who wins? Let's ignore the answer to the actual problem for a moment, and think about the problems this presents.

One, is that obviously, Whitty's Last Word is a copy. If you think about it as a clone--it's destined to be imperfect. It will never last as long, for example.

Two, is that the clashing of two Last Words would create an unending argument. So, then, why did Whitty just say, "Well, that's that" when Judge Boasting presented his argument?

It's because Whitty's Last Word is neither an Unstoppable Sword nor an Impenetrable Shield. It grants power over regulars that don't possess an artefact, true, and even over lesser artefacts. But once it faces a superior artefact, it's useless, due to the whole fact that a superior artefact is just superior.

Basically, The Mouth, Whitty's Last Word, and Boasting's Last Word are all said artefacts, that act as both sword and shield. However, as we saw, Whitty's Last Word was definitely able to overcome and defeat The Mouth. So, with that logic--why wouldn't Boasting's Last Word be able to overcome Whitty's in the same way? Like Whitty's Word to the Mouth, Boasting's Word is a superior artefact to Whitty's, and that's just fact.

By the way, the answer to the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield problem is disputed often, but the most realistic answer is that neither sword nor shield would make contact. They would phase through each other and cause no damage to either artefact... though, whether it causes damage to the wielders is another story!

I hope this made sense, at least. It did to me... mostly.
Imas Feb 24, 2016 @ 6:32am 
Originally posted by mappel4:
Originally posted by Imas:

Wouldn't Whitty still have been 'IMMUNE' then? As far as I get it, the reproduced Last Word gives you the same immunity, it just quickly deteriorates...

And here's where we have an infinite logic loop. The infamous Unstoppable Sword meets Impenetrable Shield problem. Here we go.

One warrior possesses an Unstoppable Sword. Another possesses an Impenetrable Shield. When the Unstoppable Sword meets the Impenetrable Shield, what happens? If the Unstoppable Sword were to be deflected, or if it were to break, then the Unstoppable Sword would then become stoppable--meaning, that solution is impossible. However, if the Unstoppable Sword were to break or push aside the Impenetrable Shield, then said shield would become penetrable, and that's impossible as well.

Now, the Last Word acts as both an Unstoppable Sword (in the Last Word ability), and an Impenetrable Shield (in the Immunity passive). And in this case, we have two warriors with both the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield. And in the end, our good friend the Judge's Unstoppable Sword meets our good friend Whitty's Impenetrable Shield. So, who wins? Let's ignore the answer to the actual problem for a moment, and think about the problems this presents.

One, is that obviously, Whitty's Last Word is a copy. If you think about it as a clone--it's destined to be imperfect. It will never last as long, for example.

Two, is that the clashing of two Last Words would create an unending argument. So, then, why did Whitty just say, "Well, that's that" when Judge Boasting presented his argument?

It's because Whitty's Last Word is neither an Unstoppable Sword nor an Impenetrable Shield. It grants power over regulars that don't possess an artefact, true, and even over lesser artefacts. But once it faces a superior artefact, it's useless, due to the whole fact that a superior artefact is just superior.

Basically, The Mouth, Whitty's Last Word, and Boasting's Last Word are all said artefacts, that act as both sword and shield. However, as we saw, Whitty's Last Word was definitely able to overcome and defeat The Mouth. So, with that logic--why wouldn't Boasting's Last Word be able to overcome Whitty's in the same way? Like Whitty's Word to the Mouth, Boasting's Word is a superior artefact to Whitty's, and that's just fact.

By the way, the answer to the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield problem is disputed often, but the most realistic answer is that neither sword nor shield would make contact. They would phase through each other and cause no damage to either artefact... though, whether it causes damage to the wielders is another story!

I hope this made sense, at least. It did to me... mostly.

Even if you're right about this, shouldn't Whitty at least notice that she just technically lost the argument about him being the thief when he stated he doesn't have it anymore, even though she has the collar?
If he used the Last Word when he said he flushed the stone to win the argument and force everybody to go along with that story, she should have noticed that suddenly, her Last Word didn't protect her against this.

I guess we're gonna need either a sequel or a word of god on this *shrug*

By the way, I think it's pretty ironic we're having a discourse about this^^

EDIT:
Actually - how did he copy it?
It was stated (multiple times, I think) that he had to have prepared the collar beforehand, and since the Word was engraved he had to engrave it there beforehand too.
How so? He might have somehow found the way to make temporary copies of the word, but at the time he made it, he didn't have the Word yet. Does that mean anyone can copy it without having (and thus not knowing) it? That sounds kind of weird...
Last edited by Imas; Feb 24, 2016 @ 6:45am
mappel4 Mar 2, 2016 @ 8:26pm 
Originally posted by Imas:
Originally posted by mappel4:

And here's where we have an infinite logic loop. The infamous Unstoppable Sword meets Impenetrable Shield problem. Here we go.

One warrior possesses an Unstoppable Sword. Another possesses an Impenetrable Shield. When the Unstoppable Sword meets the Impenetrable Shield, what happens? If the Unstoppable Sword were to be deflected, or if it were to break, then the Unstoppable Sword would then become stoppable--meaning, that solution is impossible. However, if the Unstoppable Sword were to break or push aside the Impenetrable Shield, then said shield would become penetrable, and that's impossible as well.

Now, the Last Word acts as both an Unstoppable Sword (in the Last Word ability), and an Impenetrable Shield (in the Immunity passive). And in this case, we have two warriors with both the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield. And in the end, our good friend the Judge's Unstoppable Sword meets our good friend Whitty's Impenetrable Shield. So, who wins? Let's ignore the answer to the actual problem for a moment, and think about the problems this presents.

One, is that obviously, Whitty's Last Word is a copy. If you think about it as a clone--it's destined to be imperfect. It will never last as long, for example.

Two, is that the clashing of two Last Words would create an unending argument. So, then, why did Whitty just say, "Well, that's that" when Judge Boasting presented his argument?

It's because Whitty's Last Word is neither an Unstoppable Sword nor an Impenetrable Shield. It grants power over regulars that don't possess an artefact, true, and even over lesser artefacts. But once it faces a superior artefact, it's useless, due to the whole fact that a superior artefact is just superior.

Basically, The Mouth, Whitty's Last Word, and Boasting's Last Word are all said artefacts, that act as both sword and shield. However, as we saw, Whitty's Last Word was definitely able to overcome and defeat The Mouth. So, with that logic--why wouldn't Boasting's Last Word be able to overcome Whitty's in the same way? Like Whitty's Word to the Mouth, Boasting's Word is a superior artefact to Whitty's, and that's just fact.

By the way, the answer to the Unstoppable Sword and Impenetrable Shield problem is disputed often, but the most realistic answer is that neither sword nor shield would make contact. They would phase through each other and cause no damage to either artefact... though, whether it causes damage to the wielders is another story!

I hope this made sense, at least. It did to me... mostly.

Even if you're right about this, shouldn't Whitty at least notice that she just technically lost the argument about him being the thief when he stated he doesn't have it anymore, even though she has the collar?
If he used the Last Word when he said he flushed the stone to win the argument and force everybody to go along with that story, she should have noticed that suddenly, her Last Word didn't protect her against this.

I guess we're gonna need either a sequel or a word of god on this *shrug*

By the way, I think it's pretty ironic we're having a discourse about this^^

EDIT:
Actually - how did he copy it?
It was stated (multiple times, I think) that he had to have prepared the collar beforehand, and since the Word was engraved he had to engrave it there beforehand too.
How so? He might have somehow found the way to make temporary copies of the word, but at the time he made it, he didn't have the Word yet. Does that mean anyone can copy it without having (and thus not knowing) it? That sounds kind of weird...

It was stated that when the Last Word is used, it's not even noticed. So, even with her "Last Word" protection, she wouldn't have even noticed the usage.

Although, I can admit one problem. She didn't go speechless, and she didn't show "IMMUNE" either. So maybe, the answer is that simply there's more than one kind of discourse, and the Last Word only works in the "conventional" kind. Also, she may have turned the Immunity passive off in order to preserve the Last Word, but that doesn't explain the lack of speechlessness...

Also, I'm pretty sure it was implied that the copy was made after he took hold of it, in his explanation of the events. He stated that he flushed the original shortly after making the copy. But any copies after that, technically could have been made from a copy. So yeah, there's that too.
Derasght Apr 6, 2016 @ 1:52pm 
Originally posted by mappel4:
Also, I'm pretty sure it was implied that the copy was made after he took hold of it, in his explanation of the events. He stated that he flushed the original shortly after making the copy. But any copies after that, technically could have been made from a copy. So yeah, there's that too.

You can't make a copy of the Word from another copy, Whitty tried, but failed. That is why she said she'll try to find a way to prolong her copy of it, because you can't make a copy if you don't posess the original one.
Last edited by Derasght; Apr 6, 2016 @ 1:53pm
novalinnhe May 6, 2016 @ 2:02am 
One thing I loved about the "true" ending, was going back into the game afterwards and looking at what Boasting says both to you and to other people throughout. Now that you're aware he has the stone, suddenly you start to realise that some of the things he said were deliberately misleading or, indeed, actually "forced" you to do something without you necessarily realising you'd been made to do so.

Reminded me very much of Bioshock's 'Would You Kindly', albeit a lot cuter. :blissful_creep:
Last edited by novalinnhe; May 6, 2016 @ 2:03am
Tola Aug 8, 2016 @ 6:24am 
You're overlooking one very serious flaw-the one that had me convinced the judge meant what he said. He blustered at The Mouth in the endgame and Chatters never even reacted to him-which he most certainly would have if he had heard a voice of an uninvited guest.

I like to believe that if Seymour had been chatted up to a level higher than Boasting, he would have swiped the stone from him and demanded his right to defend his own home from the thief who swindled it away from the Saymore family. I'm not going to test that because I know it isn't the case, but it's nice to believe.
Sgt Slaughter Oct 15, 2016 @ 2:46pm 
what if the judge is a really good lipreader?
The last word is useless if you are deaf.

Just more food for thought.
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