This game sucks.

[mrtinkerjeep]

Downloaded it. Played the training mission. The melee attck is more powerful than shooting the damn zombies. Shooting a zombie 5 times won't kill it but punching it once will. Deal breaker. I deleted it.

[Chopper Joe]

Lol what happened to this thread? Anyway, I think there are some things that'll make the game better. I do think it's a little absurd that you can kill a regular zombie in one punch (even though it's funny and fun), so maybe they could replace the punch with a melee weapon, like a knife, baton, crowbar, etc.

[mrtinkerjeep]

Escrito originalmente por ...:

also i'm pretty sure you said you were done in this discussion :)

And so I was before some one gave some intelligent replies.

BTW, no, I have never tried to make (program) a video game. Have you? But I bet you have opinions on things you've never made.

I have played many games, I have opinions on them as well as you do. Here's what I do make: I spend a lot of time on other tedious creative endevours: maintaining rental properties, building streetable, custom Jeeps from parts, and typing a 41 chapter novel. Those are three of those things. My main Jeep, which is my daily driver, gets stares of awe and apprecition and I have had numerous people complment me on it - I'm sure it has its haters, but they don't say anything negative to my face. The second Jeep is not quite ready for the road as I'm tracing down a ATF leak-source while trying to renovate two homes. My third Jeep is in mid-process, and the fourth still in the planning stages. I still need to publish my novel and its taken me longer than I thought to write and revise it over the years - its very tedious and exacting work. I appreciate that kind of effort to make something. Trust me. And All of my "creations" are open to public ridicule or appreciation, even though the person criticizing my work may never have done anything like it before.

Just because someone has never produced a product, doesn't disqualify them from criticizing a product. You judge a product based on how the product fulfills its percieved or real goals, not on your ability to reproduce it.

[mrtinkerjeep]

Escrito originalmente por Chopper Joe:

Lol what happened to this thread? Anyway, I think there are some things that'll make the game better. I do think it's a little absurd that you can kill a regular zombie in one punch (even though it's funny and fun), so maybe they could replace the punch with a melee weapon, like a knife, baton, crowbar, etc.

Maybe a 5-foot length of 90# train-rail. That would be a one-hit kill.

Or the Hammer from "Warhammer 40k SpaceMarine." That's a definite advantage to wield in a horde...

[Chopper Joe]

Maybe a 5-foot length of 90# train-rail. That would be a one-hit kill.

Or the Hammer from "Warhammer 40k SpaceMarine." That's a definite advantage to wield in a horde... [/quote]

Haha yeah that would tear through hordes like a knife cutting tissue paper

[mrtinkerjeep]

Jackerino: Maybe this is out in left field. Let me suggest something...then you can disregard it or carry on the conversation.

I know a bit about guns in the real world. I've submitted lengthy posts detailing the sad differences between real-world stopping power of guns versus their paper-tiger stopping power in various video games. I'm generally met with: "But its just a game!" So what? We have decades of data from actual police shootings which can be put into video games to make a more realistic balistic simulation. Why don't developers do this? Well, some are. The 7.62x51 NATO caliber rifles in many games actually ARE 2x as powerful as the Russian 7.62x39 and the NATO 5.56x45 caliber rifles in those games - just like in real life. BI actually uses bullet drop calulations in its game Arma2 to accurately reflect how hard it is to nail human-sized targets at ranges out to 800 meters with a 7.62x51 battle-rifle!

Since Codename Cure is based on HL2, why not use the same weapons (or maybe you do already) and change the stopping power according to real-world data for stopping power. Like for example: the disparity between the HL2 semi-auto pistol (firing a 9mm most likely) and the revolver (firing a .44magnum judging by the chamber bores visible in the reload animation). In the real world, the .44magnum has a reputation for dropping Black Bear at decent ranges. its not really condusive for self-defense anti-personell duty because of over-penetration, meaning, it packs a buttload of energy into the bullet, which does not stop in the human-sized target, causing complete transfer of kinitic energy which drops people. But it instead blows through the target causing massive trauma but unless taking the heart out, or the head, will not effectively stop a perpetrator as fast as a smaller, lighter, "softer" hitting bullet that delivers all of its kinetic energy to the target, causing it to drop. In HL2 the big-bore revolver is not super realistic, but it is very effective. On the other hand, the semi-auto pistol chambered in 9mm has some loads which are proven effective one-shot stoppers 90%+ of the time. So a 9mm pistol wouldn't necesarilly need 4-6 body shots to drop a man like it does in HL2, while the .44magnum revolver drops them in one shot.

Now the 9mm pistol AND the HK MP5 (That is featured in Codenme Cure) can use what is known as "+P" ammunition. This is a defense load and often used by police and military because it maximizes power of the small 9mm cartridge and makes it as capable as a .40S&W or .45ACP, but without the bulk of those larger defensive cartridges. So, "+P" loads basically means the ammunition manufacturer loads the cartridge case to more pressure than is considereed "safe". This tends to wear out the guns faster and may cause catastrophic failures in worn or weak weapons, but the MP5 can take the abuse. Navy Seals use them to this day with +P 9mm rounds. Not a problem since they are designed to be military weapons and regularly serviced by the unit armorer.

So - Add some more stopping power into your weapons. I have games (like Far Cry 2) which changes difficulty level, not by the alertness or expertise of your enemies (like in Arma2) but by altering weapon effectivness and ammo carrying capacity. That's just dumb. I play that game in weenie mode, because I dislike dying every 5 seconds. So I like carrying a HK G3 (a real battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51 NATO) and running around in weenie mode it takes 5-7 hits with that rifle to kill anyone - yet I can carry three hundred rounds of ammo...which would weigh around 16 pounds. But if I play in expert mode, It takes 1-2 rounds to kill an enemy (which is realistic) but I can only carry 80 rounds...which is also realistic.

Be like Arma2...not like FarCry2. Noobs should have a fair chance of killing baddies...once they progress, then the enemies become harder to kill. Weaker weapons doesnt accomplish anything: just ask the US Army...they hate their puny 5.56x45NATO rifles which throw a 55grain bullet down range at 3,000FPS. Its incapable of doing much damage through stucco walls or killing baddies beyond 3-400 meters. The 7.62x51 NATO (basically retired as a main infantry cartridge in the late 1960s) chucks a 150grain bullet downrange at 2,600FPS, increasing the kinetic energy by 2-3 times. It CAN and does offer performance the smaller cartridge just cannot match.

I'd personally love to see an MP5 in a game that would drop badguys with 1-3 shots center mass. Maybe 9mm pistols could be 2-4 shots due to their shorter barrel length decreasing bullet velocity, which decreases kinetic energy. So there is some "ammunition" for thought.

[Australian]

Escrito originalmente por Jackerino:

Escrito originalmente por ...:

also i'm pretty sure you said you were done in this discussion :)

Don't be rude. That's not how we deal with things around here. Just because we're a small team doesn't mean we aren't allowed to be criticized. That shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for anyone.

I'm also kinda cranky this morning because I woke up with some serious abdominal pain, so sorry if I sound snappy.

Escrito originalmente por mrtinkerjeep:

Anyway, my crappy ability to nail headhots with every round fired not withstanding, I think the hit-points on the zombies need to be dropped.

Maybe I'm just a wuss.

I see your point, but it's just the fact that it's a zombie game, and I don't know of a single zombie game where headshots aren't a vital part of the game. In fact, we're pretty forgiving when it comes to body shots. So really, the zombies are below-spongey on average. I also know your pain as well, I shoot for center mass in most games because I try to hit, not do critical damage. It's why I am dead-accurate at Counter Strike or any other FPS, but I will be destroyed by very skilled players who only aim for the head and are good at it. I do understand your criticism, but Codename CURE isn't exactly the best game to look for realism.

Idk, that's just my opinion though. All i'm doing is redoing the visual and audible parts of the game, including maps n' stuff. Perhaps if Hoob agrees with it we could have a melee weapon of some sort that justifies the instakilling, but meh. Not that big a deal.

soz did not mean to be rude

[Alcyonaria]

Maybe have a swap to melee, to allow different classes to have different strengths of melee weapons that you could swap to, with a weaker quick melee to finish off weakened normal zombies. I like that idea

[Jackerino]

Escrito originalmente por mrtinkerjeep:

Jackerino: Maybe this is out in left field. Let me suggest something...then you can disregard it or carry on the conversation.

I know a bit about guns in the real world. I've submitted lengthy posts detailing the sad differences between real-world stopping power of guns versus their paper-tiger stopping power in various video games. I'm generally met with: "But its just a game!" So what? We have decades of data from actual police shootings which can be put into video games to make a more realistic balistic simulation. Why don't developers do this? Well, some are. The 7.62x51 NATO caliber rifles in many games actually ARE 2x as powerful as the Russian 7.62x39 and the NATO 5.56x45 caliber rifles in those games - just like in real life. BI actually uses bullet drop calulations in its game Arma2 to accurately reflect how hard it is to nail human-sized targets at ranges out to 800 meters with a 7.62x51 battle-rifle!

Since Codename Cure is based on HL2, why not use the same weapons (or maybe you do already) and change the stopping power according to real-world data for stopping power. Like for example: the disparity between the HL2 semi-auto pistol (firing a 9mm most likely) and the revolver (firing a .44magnum judging by the chamber bores visible in the reload animation). In the real world, the .44magnum has a reputation for dropping Black Bear at decent ranges. its not really condusive for self-defense anti-personell duty because of over-penetration, meaning, it packs a buttload of energy into the bullet, which does not stop in the human-sized target, causing complete transfer of kinitic energy which drops people. But it instead blows through the target causing massive trauma but unless taking the heart out, or the head, will not effectively stop a perpetrator as fast as a smaller, lighter, "softer" hitting bullet that delivers all of its kinetic energy to the target, causing it to drop. In HL2 the big-bore revolver is not super realistic, but it is very effective. On the other hand, the semi-auto pistol chambered in 9mm has some loads which are proven effective one-shot stoppers 90%+ of the time. So a 9mm pistol wouldn't necesarilly need 4-6 body shots to drop a man like it does in HL2, while the .44magnum revolver drops them in one shot.

Now the 9mm pistol AND the HK MP5 (That is featured in Codenme Cure) can use what is known as "+P" ammunition. This is a defense load and often used by police and military because it maximizes power of the small 9mm cartridge and makes it as capable as a .40S&W or .45ACP, but without the bulk of those larger defensive cartridges. So, "+P" loads basically means the ammunition manufacturer loads the cartridge case to more pressure than is considereed "safe". This tends to wear out the guns faster and may cause catastrophic failures in worn or weak weapons, but the MP5 can take the abuse. Navy Seals use them to this day with +P 9mm rounds. Not a problem since they are designed to be military weapons and regularly serviced by the unit armorer.

So - Add some more stopping power into your weapons. I have games (like Far Cry 2) which changes difficulty level, not by the alertness or expertise of your enemies (like in Arma2) but by altering weapon effectivness and ammo carrying capacity. That's just dumb. I play that game in weenie mode, because I dislike dying every 5 seconds. So I like carrying a HK G3 (a real battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51 NATO) and running around in weenie mode it takes 5-7 hits with that rifle to kill anyone - yet I can carry three hundred rounds of ammo...which would weigh around 16 pounds. But if I play in expert mode, It takes 1-2 rounds to kill an enemy (which is realistic) but I can only carry 80 rounds...which is also realistic.

Be like Arma2...not like FarCry2. Noobs should have a fair chance of killing baddies...once they progress, then the enemies become harder to kill. Weaker weapons doesnt accomplish anything: just ask the US Army...they hate their puny 5.56x45NATO rifles which throw a 55grain bullet down range at 3,000FPS. Its incapable of doing much damage through stucco walls or killing baddies beyond 3-400 meters. The 7.62x51 NATO (basically retired as a main infantry cartridge in the late 1960s) chucks a 150grain bullet downrange at 2,600FPS, increasing the kinetic energy by 2-3 times. It CAN and does offer performance the smaller cartridge just cannot match.

I'd personally love to see an MP5 in a game that would drop badguys with 1-3 shots center mass. Maybe 9mm pistols could be 2-4 shots due to their shorter barrel length decreasing bullet velocity, which decreases kinetic energy. So there is some "ammunition" for thought.

Yeah, that's pretty out of left field. That's something i'm planning on with my own game, but Codename CURE isn't really going for realism. It's nice food for thought, but if we added the mechanics you're talking about, it'd render some weapons useless as well as change the game in a very drastic way that the majority of the playerbase wouldn't want. We (Well, I) am focusing on improving the graphics drastically, so things like that are definitely out of left field, for now.

[Jackerino]

You're also forgetting that these are zombies, not people. People feel pain and react to it, these run-of-the-mill zombies don't, and just keep going until they are physically unable to keep going.

[Jackerino]

Escrito originalmente por Alcyone:

Maybe have a swap to melee, to allow different classes to have different strengths of melee weapons that you could swap to, with a weaker quick melee to finish off weakened normal zombies. I like that idea

I wouldn't be against melee weapons, it's just that the insta-kill melee is rather important, since it's a big part of the strategy of the game. And if we made an insta-kill melee, it'd become pretty op because you could just kill all the zombies with it.

We'll have to see, though.

[76561198262612461]

My funny thing on this game is the background music.

[Jackerino]

Escrito originalmente por NaruHinaS:

My funny thing on this game is the background music.

Eheheh..

[76561198262612461]

Escrito originalmente por Jackerino:

Escrito originalmente por NaruHinaS:

My funny thing on this game is the background music.

Eheheh..

Yea its not funny ^_^

[mrtinkerjeep]

Escrito originalmente por Jackerino:

You're also forgetting that these are zombies, not people. People feel pain and react to it, these run-of-the-mill zombies don't, and just keep going until they are physically unable to keep going.

I'm not forgetting that zombies are fiction. And as such can be written or enginered to reflect ANY type of human strength or human deficiency in whatever manner the developer wishes.

If you want to make them juggernuts which are not drastically affected by head shots, but would require the entire body being destroyed (as seems the case in COD Zombies, where even headshots dont stop them all the time and you can blow limbs off and they still keep coming) - then you can do that.

Or you can make them frail humans with a mind/personality altering disease, (Not Romero-esque walking undead, but a more realistic type of zombie) that only a few hits, in the torso would destroy their circulatory system even quicker than in a healthy human. You can do that too.

I personally favor the diseased type and feature them in my own novel-in-the-works. Re-animated corpses is not only scientifically impossible on so many levels, but its ridiculous as well. I find it sad that the society of today so freely embraces such nonsense and there are people in the world that actually believe they can exist.

Gaming is not reality. And zombies are not real...but a game, as you say doesnt need to reflect reality. However, you have chosen to incorporate real-world firearm models in your mod, including the MP5, Dragunov SVD, Galil, and a combat shotgun which I can't really identify...surely you must use some sort of bullet hit-point system. And if not input into the game to attract people who like those guns and their power, why incorporate them at all? Why not just make up fictional guns (Like the Combine's weapons in HL2) and ascribe to them your own stopping-power?I'm just saying it might not be a game-breaking deal to turn the power of the real-world weapons up a bit to better reflect their capabilities in the real world.

The zombies: they must, for the need of the movies and games be destructable. A dead body reacts differently to balistic damage, but not much, generally the absence of systemic and diastolic blood pressure being a big difference in how bullets re designed to work. Destroying a major artery or vein renders it useless to convey blood to major organ or even the brain. Destroying the heart renders it incapable of pumping blood to the organs or brain, ensuring their rapid attrition and disfunction. Destroying the lungs renders them incapable of delivering oxygen to the blood, making it lifeless. Wipe out any of these main system components and the brain dies just as dead as if it had a bullet put through it - it just takes longer. What makes the Romero type Zombie articulate and move? Nothing in reality can for long without oxygenated blood - muscles stiffen within 24 hours of death, and then they go limp and begin to shrivel. They cannot chase anyone from 24 hours to 48 hours after death due to those facts. Let's put that aside and ask this question: Why do Romero Zombies chase people? To eat...for nourishment...but what the hell benefit does it have in a corpse's system if the guts do not function to derive nutrients from the food they ingest and impart those nutrients to the blood which then is circulated by the heart...etc? The Romero zombie isn't scary to me. Its fictional. I know this. But the Diseased Zombie, though not likely to occur would scare the hell out of me, because they can possibly be real, and therefore a threat if they occur in a pandemic. Maybe your Zombies should be more like the Diseased Zombies and would actually require nourishment. More "food" for thought.

Sorry for the extended argument, I just feel like you arent getting my main point.

[Jackerino]

Escrito originalmente por mrtinkerjeep:

Escrito originalmente por Jackerino:

You're also forgetting that these are zombies, not people. People feel pain and react to it, these run-of-the-mill zombies don't, and just keep going until they are physically unable to keep going.

I'm not forgetting that zombies are fiction. And as such can be written or enginered to reflect ANY type of human strength or human deficiency in whatever manner the developer wishes.

If you want to make them juggernuts which are not drastically affected by head shots, but would require the entire body being destroyed (as seems the case in COD Zombies, where even headshots dont stop them all the time and you can blow limbs off and they still keep coming) - then you can do that.

Or you can make them frail humans with a mind/personality altering disease, (Not Romero-esque walking undead, but a more realistic type of zombie) that only a few hits, in the torso would destroy their circulatory system even quicker than in a healthy human. You can do that too.

I personally favor the diseased type and feature them in my own novel-in-the-works. Re-animated corpses is not only scientifically impossible on so many levels, but its ridiculous as well. I find it sad that the society of today so freely embraces such nonsense and there are people in the world that actually believe they can exist.

Gaming is not reality. And zombies are not real...but a game, as you say doesnt need to reflect reality. However, you have chosen to incorporate real-world firearm models in your mod, including the MP5, Dragunov SVD, Galil, and a combat shotgun which I can't really identify...surely you must use some sort of bullet hit-point system. And if not input into the game to attract people who like those guns and their power, why incorporate them at all? Why not just make up fictional guns (Like the Combine's weapons in HL2) and ascribe to them your own stopping-power?I'm just saying it might not be a game-breaking deal to turn the power of the real-world weapons up a bit to better reflect their capabilities in the real world.

The zombies: they must, for the need of the movies and games be destructable. A dead body reacts differently to balistic damage, but not much, generally the absence of systemic and diastolic blood pressure being a big difference in how bullets re designed to work. Destroying a major artery or vein renders it useless to convey blood to major organ or even the brain. Destroying the heart renders it incapable of pumping blood to the organs or brain, ensuring their rapid attrition and disfunction. Destroying the lungs renders them incapable of delivering oxygen to the blood, making it lifeless. Wipe out any of these main system components and the brain dies just as dead as if it had a bullet put through it - it just takes longer. What makes the Romero type Zombie articulate and move? Nothing in reality can for long without oxygenated blood - muscles stiffen within 24 hours of death, and then they go limp and begin to shrivel. They cannot chase anyone from 24 hours to 48 hours after death due to those facts. Let's put that aside and ask this question: Why do Romero Zombies chase people? To eat...for nourishment...but what the hell benefit does it have in a corpse's system if the guts do not function to derive nutrients from the food they ingest and impart those nutrients to the blood which then is circulated by the heart...etc? The Romero zombie isn't scary to me. Its fictional. I know this. But the Diseased Zombie, though not likely to occur would scare the hell out of me, because they can possibly be real, and therefore a threat if they occur in a pandemic. Maybe your Zombies should be more like the Diseased Zombies and would actually require nourishment. More "food" for thought.

Sorry for the extended argument, I just feel like you arent getting my main point.

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think the problem is us. I think the problem is that you take it way too seriously. You worry about all these realism things for a petty unfinished zombie game, and the very large majority of games don't have these things. Because they aren't aiming for realism, they're aiming for a game that is fun to play. It's like; what were you expecting? Did you look at this game in the Steam Store, look at it, look at all the things, the descriptions, then look at the not-good-so-i'm-remaking-them maps, and go "Wow, I bet this game has bullet stop and realistic bullet physics akin to a simulator"?

Basically, you're taking the game way too seriously. We don't have these gun models for "hype", it's all about avaliability. If it really was that easy we'd have tons of iconic weapons by now. The game never promised to be realistic, and doesn't want to be realistic. And you're saying it sucks because it's not realistic.

That's like, I don't know, saying an arena shooter sucks for not having an engaging branching storyline, or saying Bejeweled sucks because it isn't a bank robbing simulator. This is why I thought you were trolling, because you make a lot of assumptions and sandbag the game for not doing something it never wanted to do in the first place.