Is Return To Castle Wolfesntein still cannon in this series?

[Squishy boi thighs]

When I first played TOB, I thought it was more or less a tribute to the original, but some people are saying it was a remake. It doesn't make sense to me becuase BJ references RTCW events in the game, so is there some paradox going on here? I persoanally believe RTCW is cannon to the OB and TNO story. Except for Wolfenstein 2009, that game was garbage.

[Zombie Tsunami]

"I persoanally believe RTCW is cannon to the OB and TNO story. Except for Wolfenstein 2009, that game was garbage"

I first played the big W in 1992 and I really enjoyed W 2009. (still enjoying it and I"m glad I have it in my Steam Library)
Wolfenstein 2009 is an excellent game and It's a lot better than OB that's for sure.

Castle Wolfenstein (1981)
Beyond Castle Wolfenstein (1984)
Wolfenstein 3D (1992)
Spear of Destiny (1992)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001)
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (2003)
Wolfenstein RPG (2008)
Wolfenstein (2009)
Wolfenstein: The New Order (2014)
Wolfenstein: The Old Blood (2015)
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus (2017)

[HE1NZ]

Cannon is a large weapon.

[HE1NZ]

And if RtCW is canon, then "garbage" Wolfenstein 2009 is too. There's loose continuity between them all which The Old Blood doesn't really breaks even if it repeats some of RtCW.

[Squishy boi thighs]

Originally posted by HE1NZ:

Cannon is a large weapon.

Probably no one says the same thing about your weener.

[Squishy boi thighs]

Originally posted by Zeppo the Clown:

I first played the big W in 1992 and I really enjoyed W 2009. (still enjoying it and I"m glad I have it in my Steam Library)
Wolfenstein 2009 is an excellent game and It's a lot better than OB that's for sure.

Jeez didn't think people woukd be so touchy over that. It's just my opinion.

[L E G U L U M]

I think officially the older games are considered apocryphal, meaning canonical as long as it does not conflict with the new games, in which case the new games take precedence.

[Det.Bullock]

In the Old Blood there is a clear reference to the X-labs of Return to Castle Wolfenstein, do for RTCW and 2009 it's probably a case of "broad strokes", the events in those games more or less happened just not necessarily exactly as depicted in the games. For example BJ in TOB says he has seen the super-soldiers already in the X-labs but in the RTCW X-labs the super soldiers didin't need to be attached to a power source to function.

[L E G U L U M]

Originally posted by White Temple:

Apocryphal does not mean Canonical. Grab your dictionary.

I did not say that.

Originally posted by White Temple:

"..........as long as it does not conflict with the new games" What?

How is this unclear? The events in the older games are self-contained as a story. The new games draw from them or even reference them, but if something is retconned in the new games it takes precedence over anything that happened in the old ones as far as the current universe is considered.

Originally posted by White Temple:

And why would the new games take precedence in the story line? Makes zero sense.

If you want to learn about a story, you start from the beginning. You don't start at the end and then throw out the beginning.

The new games are not made by the same people. They don't have the same writers and artists, and they don't have the same artistic vision. It is not a coherent story from start to finish. The new MachineGames entries are a soft reboot, not a direct continuation of the older titles. They're free to disregard elements of the old games as they see fit.

Just to be clear; that does not mean I agree or disagree with their choices, I'm just saying they can do so at their leisure, and if you don't like it you should be telling them.

[Meriwether]

I am of the impression that The Old Blood is a very loose remake (or retelling) of the first act of RtCW with aspects of the final act thrown in. This means that TOB loosely covers the events of RtCW starting from when BJ escapes from his cell through to the "Church Boss". Everything after that (including the X-Labs) are not included. However the events of the other acts of RtCW are apparently part of the current Wolfenstein lore, as evidenced by BJ referencing the X-Labs during The New Order as well as his hunt for Deathshead. Getting back to TOB and RtCW, look at the similarities between the TOB and RtCW's opening act. The cable car section, the village BJ meets his contact in, ZOMBIES, BJ escaping from his cell, the entrance to the catacombs/tomb, Wesley is a more fleshed out version of "Agent One", etc. The list goes on. The only thing TOB is really missing is the female Elite Guards with those damn Stens.

Regardless of your thoughts on it Wolfenstein 2009 is explicitly part of the lore as well. In fact TNO is for all intents and purposes a direct sequel to Wolf 2009. Most obviously this is evidenced by the return of Caroline Becker, who is a major character in Wolf 2009 and TNO, leading the remains of the Kreisau Circle resistance group. Furthermore the events of Wolf 2009 are explicitly referenced several times during the course of TNO including a mention of the town of Isenstadt, which was the hub town from Wolf 2009.

The only games not explicitly part of the current Wolfenstein lore are the originals: Castle Wolfenstein, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Wolfenstein 3D, and its expansion, Spear of Destiny. So chronologically the timeline looks a bit like this:
-Return to Castle Wolfentein - Act 2 through the Final Act (1943)
-Wolfenstein 2009 (1944 or 1945? - unsure on the year)
-The Old Blood (1946)
-The New Order (1946+1960)
-The New Colossus (1961)

The specific events of older games (namely RtCW and Wolf 2009) will probably be retroactively altered to suit the needs of the story for the current and upcoming Wolfenstein games. Fundamentally the events of the older games only apply to the current lore in so far as they are useful for filling out the stories and events of the newer games.

[HE1NZ]

New Wolfenstein games are told in internal monologue. It's entirely possible that in The Old Blood BJ is an unreliable narrator doing a retelling RtCW events the way he remembers it.

[Light the Impulsive]

Originally posted by Frost 31:

The only games not explicitly part of the current Wolfenstein lore are the originals: Castle Wolfenstein, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Wolfenstein 3D, and its expansion, Spear of Destiny.

Mission to recover Spear of Destiny was briefly referenced in W2009, so it DID happen one way or another in this continuity, no?

[Meriwether]

Originally posted by Not A Villain:

Originally posted by Frost 31:

The only games not explicitly part of the current Wolfenstein lore are the originals: Castle Wolfenstein, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Wolfenstein 3D, and its expansion, Spear of Destiny.

Mission to recover Spear of Destiny was briefly referenced in W2009, so it DID happen one way or another in this continuity, no?

I honestly forgot about that reference (it has been 5+ years since I last played through Wolf 2009). However that reference only means the events of Spear of Destiny are part of the lore for Wolf 2009, not necessarily the new lore of TNO, ToB or The New Colossus. Even though Wolf 2009 acknowledges it, because that reference has not been carried forward into the 3 new games it cannot be explicitly considered part of the new lore. Basically if the 3 new games do not reference to it then it cannot be considered explicitly part of the new lore.

[swenor]

Just play the games and enjoy. Oh, and leave basement every now and then ok? Sunlight will do you good with vitamin D.

[Trem]

RTCW is not canon in the current series, but Blazcowicz does reference the "X-Labs" in Old Blood, implying that elements of it are true. Of course, we know that Old Blood serves to overwrite Return to Castle Wolfenstein's opening, so it's not entirely canon.

[kireta]

TNO, TOB and TNC are alternative timeline, where for unknown reason events of RtCW have been delayed by 3 years, and in result Germany won.
RtCW takes place in 1943, Germany still use historical equippment, and new techs (mechs, rotary cannons) are still experimental. There's also strong implication that, without wunderwaffes destroyed by BJ, Germany will lose the war.
In TOB timeline, events of RtCW take place in 1946, all these advanced techs are commonly used, and Allies are on brink of defeat.

Alternative answer is that Bethesda doesn't really care about consistency of lore, as shown in their TES and Fallout games, so you may be looking for answers, when they didn't even bother with question.