Is food actually necessary?

[The Prosciutto Liker (Official)]

It's been so long since I've played that I don't remember how things worked before, but it doesn't seem like food is necessary in this version. Some things give good bonuses, but as far as I can tell starvation is not an issue. Is this correct?

[Genesyne]

This is correct. To quote Smoodlez:
"I removed the hunger bar cause it just felt like a punishment, and was pretty irrelevant after crafting a bunch of bread. I tried to make the new food system a little more interactive and interesting. All foods items now either heal, or provide a unique bonus, so they're still worth growing/crafting. You can discover a whole bunch of new food items at the cooking table"

[Bera]

You are right, starvation is not an issue anymore, notice that the starvation bar is not even in your display anymore.

[emp456]

That's a shame, i just installed the game again and noticed that. Imo, hunger being relevant or not it's part of how a game is designed, but hunger is also a basic need for a survival game. Being able to craft foods that also provide extra buffs or benefits is great, but not removing the whole hunger system.

Now, at least as i try to know that new game better and fully stablish myself, food is basically irrelevant so i don't see anything fixed here.

Also, where is the night? It doesn't seem to come anymore with all the creatures spawning, etc.

Edit: ok, the night is here, but it's as peaceful as the day it seems. Much boring game for now, 0 intensity or pressure for nights and for food.

[Genesyne]

The food system is something that will definitely be touched upon again, however we have yet to find a way to make the hunger mechanic more than just "Bar goes empty so make it full again", which is why the current implementation is more about making you gain benefits from experimenting than only pushing you to make a bunch of food at once and then never think about it again. We will have a look at it again in the future, but we don't want to implement a hunger bar just because "it's a survival game so it has to have one".

Regarding the night: It should be working as before, night has not been removed or anything. It is also the first time I have heard of that issue. Are you playing on the live version or the unstable branch?

[emp456]

Originally posted by Genesyne:

The food system is something that will definitely be touched upon again, however we have yet to find a way to make the hunger mechanic more than just "Bar goes empty so make it full again", which is why the current implementation is more about making you gain benefits from experimenting than only pushing you to make a bunch of food at once and then never think about it again. We will have a look at it again in the future, but we don't want to implement a hunger bar just because "it's a survival game so it has to have one".

Regarding the night: It should be working as before, night has not been removed or anything. It is also the first time I have heard of that issue. Are you playing on the live version or the unstable branch?

Hi, thanks for your answer.

I completely agree that a hunger system should not just be "fill the bar" but right now, playing again, i totally miss being pressured to eat something. That gave you as a basic objective first to try to gather enough food (and cook it) and then to stablish a farm.

That need was an extra pressure/challenge at nights, which came earlier before because now the day last much more or at least more than before (i added an edit to this probably after your answer!) Also, there are no enemies spawning around me at all except for the same animals we can see during the day or the slimes.

So, the need to have food and to eat plus the dangerous nights made a challenge for the early game that has now disappeared. When before you sometimes had to risk to go out and find food in the darkness (full of pirate skeletons) now you don't have to do anything at all, or risk anything. You just stay in your house or go out to gather resources as if it's still the day.

Added to that, i have seen that now by default you no longer lose your items on death (as previously on "normal")

So, take it all together and i find the game more casual and boring than before as there's no pressure and no clear objective than gather things to see what i can craft when previously stabilsh a food source was vital as it was marking a zone with torches and building a house to hide from all the enemies that spawned at night.

It was all so calm that i have just continued exploiring at night until i found a stair (didn't like this change, also, not being able to choose where to go down) and have built my house around gathering all the first 2 nights without a single challenge around. I am now exploring the first floor below me, but it's all so calm, even down there there's few enemies (a bat here, an skeleton there...very sparse, but i don't remember exactly how it was before)

Finally, i find a bit confusing that food doesn't heal you now, at all. I have gathered pineapples and berries as always and have roasted them, but it seems to only regenerate mana or energy? Btw, this also adds to not feeling that need for farming and a plantation. It seems that carrots do heal a little bit, but that's all i have found and cannot cook that in any case.

So i find it all like that changes have removed from the player basic ideas or objectives from what was previously more a survival game (and again i agree that needing to eat without any reason is a chore, but it also was a way to heal ourselves and gave us objectives when playing so it had more purpose than just being a chore) and also basic challenges, making the game more casual and boring, imo and seeing that the default actual difficulty is easier than before and more forgiving, i have the feeling that's the reason for some changes, to remove pressure and survival in exchange for a more peaceful, casual and calm experience.

For me, the game has lost a lot of charm with all the changes together and after trying it again for just 30 minutes, i'm sorry to say this but i'm finding it boring compared with how it was before.

[Smoodlez]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm still try trying to balance the whole game in terms of difficulty but I didn't want the hunger bar to be where the difficulty came from, and more for farming/cooking to help with the difficulty. I'll take a look at the night time and do some tweaks to make it a little more scary and to make it a reason to actually build a base.
There's a lot of different types of people playing and to some it was too overwhelming so I added the second difficulty, which may still be too easy. I can increase the spawn rate and amount of enemies in this mode and see if that helps

[Bera]

Originally posted by Smoodlez:

Thanks for the feedback! I'm still try trying to balance the whole game in terms of difficulty but I didn't want the hunger bar to be where the difficulty came from, and more for farming/cooking to help with the difficulty. I'll take a look at the night time and do some tweaks to make it a little more scary and to make it a reason to actually build a base.
There's a lot of different types of people playing and to some it was too overwhelming so I added the second difficulty, which may still be too easy. I can increase the spawn rate and amount of enemies in this mode and see if that helps

Hi Smoodlez! I agree with emp456 on the survival thing, i miss that feeling of victory when finding a pineapple or berry when i was about to starve.

I know you're busy with a LOT of things, but if possible make hunger and starving optional at the character creation like you did with the items dropping on death, the player would choose the kind of game it wants to play.

Ps. Glad to have you back man! Love your game!

emp456: Carrots do have use other than eating and cooking, and it's so good that i plant lots of it.;)

[Smoodlez]

I'll have to adjust a few things first, but I can look at adding hunger as an additional world setting

[emp456]

Originally posted by Smoodlez:

Thanks for the feedback! I'm still try trying to balance the whole game in terms of difficulty but I didn't want the hunger bar to be where the difficulty came from, and more for farming/cooking to help with the difficulty. I'll take a look at the night time and do some tweaks to make it a little more scary and to make it a reason to actually build a base.
There's a lot of different types of people playing and to some it was too overwhelming so I added the second difficulty, which may still be too easy. I can increase the spawn rate and amount of enemies in this mode and see if that helps

Hi! First of all, it's great to have you back here working on the game.

As i said, imo food is not any artificial difficulty or some early stress. It gives the player a clear first objective to survive, incentivates the need to create a base and start farming, the necessity to prepare some provisions before going into an expedition underground or before any travel to discover the above world. All of that not only gives the game that survival feeling as it had previously, but also gives some meaningful tasks to the player without being just a chore or having to grind too much as other more hardcore games.

The hunger depends on how it's implemented, and that cam be changed (for instance how quickly the bar depletes with every different difficulty mode) It doesn't need to be a frustration or annoying to the player, that's indeed artificial difficulty and i'm sure no one wants that. But from tweaking and balancing to a complete removal...

Imho, that's lost actually with the changes. The player can peacefully explore the map avoiding (or killing, combat is easy and more going 1 by 1) slimes, wild boars or whatever aggresive npc. Right now, with the change to how stairs work, i bet 99,99% of the players just explore a bit to find a fixed stair and stops there to build the first workstations. There's no need to close a base because the day last longer than before and because there are very few enemies spawning around at night, anyway. You just put 2 or 3 torches around just in case and continue gathering at night like if it was the day.

From the perspective of a new player, it seems a relaxing and peaceful game without any stress after starting it. No one will go after you, there's no rush to eat or drink or whatever, so even if they find one of those fixed stairs and have curiosity to see what it is, the rest of the time they will just explore around trying to know what to do exactly, finding different resources and trying to understand how to craft things, etc.

Again imo but it's obvious i'm not the only one, the game starts so calm and relaxed that can feel even boring.

Underground things change a bit, but not too much. You just need a pickaxe, a spear and a torch and be a bit cautious. You can get a surprise hit or two, but it's still pretty easy to explore and start gathering the new resources before going back to your base and see what new you can do without being disturbed or pressed at all.

For a veteran player, the difference is pretty noticeable in the firs minutes of the new version. And, sorry, boring. It's a different game from what i bought initially, that's the feeling.

I feel pretty bad to say this but i dislike the removal of food for all the reasons stated above and i dislike how the new recipes are (ofc changed for the new system) It feels arbitrary and confusing how a carrot can heal you but not a pineapple, for example.

I dislike having fixed stairs and not able to choose where to go down and up (or where to build our base, because that's also restricted actually to the surroundings of a stair down) because imo means having a bit less freedom than before.

Finally, i dislike how the game recognizes and discovers recipes now because i find it a bit more confusing (but this can be just because i need to get used to the new system) and because how it messes up with the inventory UI constantly moving items order and changing files composition up and down as you craft and add or remove new resources/crafted items so you end up most of the time trying to craft something you didn't want, at least when you are crafting more than 1 item of the same type.

I'm really glad, as everyone here, that you have come back so giving this kind of negative feedback for the new version makes me feel bad, but that's what i honestly think. To be sure of all of this, i firstly downgraded the game to the 2017 version to be fair and because i didn't remember exactly some things so i could be wrong. Now i have both versions installed and i have to admit that i'm playing the old one, again.

Originally posted by Smoodlez:

I'll have to adjust a few things first, but I can look at adding hunger as an additional world setting

That would be really nice. Options are always great and serve for anyone no matter how they prefer to play. Imo you will also need to change how resources and recipes work actually for the food to, well, be food. I assume that's what you meant with adjusting a few things first.

In any case, thank you very much for listening and taking our feedback into account and for being here again. You are very welcome.

Edit: all that said, having more food recipes that have different bonus is a great idea anyway, and that together with a hunger option would be perfect.