Anyone Else Hate the New Matrix?

[Solly]

I have always played deckers. Both in P&P and in the computer games. This really sucks! One: what does playing simon and packman have to do with Shadow Run. Two: this relies on arcade skills, not on the decking abilities of my character. Bring back the traditional matrix. Shadow Run is a tactical/strategy game. Not a flippin' arcade game. Arrrghhh!

[Solly]

Also, if they wanted to change it up, they could have used the same implementation as Shadowrun Unlimited. I loved using the old sleaze programs. Point is, matrix runs should depend on the skill of the decker character, not the twitchiness of the player.

[Nervend]

I didn't like it because the game still has issues with movement precision. Multiple times I was spotted by a sentry because the game didn't register a mouse click - either because it was too close to the edge of the screen or something else.

Another problem is that the fog of war shouldn't have been inside the new matrix - it's too easy to blindly walk into a darkened map only to be spotted by a sentry that you couldn't have known was there.

[Bluegrass74]

I'm with the Original Poster, I think it's a big step backwards. Personally I think the height of Matrix gameplay was in the Genesis version of SR. Very old now, but it had good tactical interaction and always had the hidden danger of hitting that Tar Baby.

[Mrow]

I appreciate that you can try to 'sneak' through security, and therefore supression has a purpose now. Bulling one's way through matix defenses every time always bothered me, in terms of that you're supposed to be sneaky; setting off matrix alarms used to be a fine way to call corporate security on your location, rather than merely just having more IC attack you.

The problem lies in how you're sneaking. it's not sneaky, and the manner in which you sneak is much like cutting your sandwiches with a chainsaw. It's possible, but the result is rarely elegant. The fact that things one might use to help you, such as suppression and boost, are stuck in combat only adds to the frustration.

The easiest solution I can see is simply being able to start turn based mode in the matrix at will, much like launching a drone into a vent. I suspect that is what is supposed to be happening, given how the matrix tracing sensors work.

[Achi]

I don't hate the new matrix, but I'm not a fan of it either. First off, the matrix in SRR and its seuquels has always felt very small and plain. The new real time stealth mechanics don't help that impression and it is also not an ideal solution, because the controls are somewhat unresponsive.
Add to that the limitations of the isometric perspective that hides tiles from your view, as well as the fact that the pathfinding will sometimes screw you over, and it is easy to get frustrated.
So now we have a micro management clickfest...not my cup of tea.
I did prefer the old matrix mechanics over the new one, although those really weren't excellent either. The best representation of a matrix run in a Shadowrun game that I have come across so far, is the way it was handled in the old Genesis version. I'm surprised that HBS didn't take any inspiration from there.
What I do like about the new matrix is the puzzle system when hacking nodes. It makes me feel like I'm actually trying to decrypt something, which is nice.

[Nervend]

Escrito originalmente por Achi:

I don't hate the new matrix, but I'm not a fan of it either. First off, the matrix in SRR and its seuquels has always felt very small and plain. The new real time stealth mechanics don't help that impression and it is also not an ideal solution, because the controls are somewhat unresponsive.
Add to that the limitations of the isometric perspective that hides tiles from your view, as well as the fact that the pathfinding will sometimes screw you over, and it is easy to get frustrated.
So now we have a micro management clickfest...not my cup of tea.
I did prefer the old matrix mechanics over the new one, although those really weren't excellent either. The best representation of a matrix run in a Shadowrun game that I have come across so far, is the way it was handled in the old Genesis version. I'm surprised that HBS didn't take any inspiration from there.
What I do like about the new matrix is the puzzle system when hacking nodes. It makes me feel like I'm actually trying to decrypt something, which is nice.

I agree with you there, interactive hacking games are always better than waiting for a progress meter to fill up.

It seems that HBS took more influence from the SNES SR game than the genesis one. Strange as most people seem to prefer the genesis version.

[Cypris Melaenis]

Escrito originalmente por Solly:

Also, if they wanted to change it up, they could have used the same implementation as Shadowrun Unlimited. I loved using the old sleaze programs. Point is, matrix runs should depend on the skill of the decker character, not the twitchiness of the player.

100% agree.

[jasque101478]

Echoic +1

[Dorok]

Minigames are boring and stupid, it was that complicted to build a skill system?

Real time stealth is out of topic of turn based game and again stupidely unlinked to any character building.

Total crap, hate it, waiting a refund of my pledge.

[hal9000]

Came here during a search for tips on running this new version. Yes, I hate it. I hated the old one too, but for entirely different reasons. Before, it was simplistic and uninspired turn-based combat against generic enemies. Now, it's an arcade minigame. Still awful, but a totally new and improved type of awful! Either of the SNES/Genesis console game implementations were superior, and they weren't exactly fantastic. I find myself scratching my head: was it THAT hard to come up with something that is set in a virtually-created space, meaning you can literally do anything with it's representation? There are a couple of good ideas here, like actually using the System Response Levels, but copy/paste-ing a top-down twitch-based 1980's arcade stealth section into an isometric, turn-based hacking game? At least in the 80's your view was directly top-down....the isometric view means parts of your path are completely obscured so you can't tell where the trace is illuminating half the time. SMH

[GunofBrixton]

Don't like the "new matrix"? Wanna use your skills to get passed the sentries? Trying thinking! Bring a bunch of high burst damage abilities, and a trace reducer, then just start combat, blow up the sentry, and keep going until you have to drop your trace a bit. At which point, you just activate that good ole' -50 trace, and then nuke the sentry and continue.

It is not this games fault you can't think freely! The option to blunt force your way in via your matrix abilities is there, you just don't do it.

[Apocalypse]

Escrito originalmente por GunofBrixton:

Don't like the "new matrix"? Wanna use your skills to get passed the sentries? Trying thinking! Bring a bunch of high burst damage abilities, and a trace reducer, then just start combat, blow up the sentry, and keep going until you have to drop your trace a bit. At which point, you just activate that good ole' -50 trace, and then nuke the sentry and continue.

It is not this games fault you can't think freely! The option to blunt force your way in via your matrix abilities is there, you just don't do it.

That is how I have done it, the best part is that the later systems are full of ice, meaning that you can slip past the watcher ice in turn-based mode even, while just keeping one harmless white ice alive and keep using the trace reducer. 5 extra trace per turn is less than you can surpress.

[GunofBrixton]

Escrito originalmente por Apocalypse:

Escrito originalmente por GunofBrixton:

Don't like the "new matrix"? Wanna use your skills to get passed the sentries? Trying thinking! Bring a bunch of high burst damage abilities, and a trace reducer, then just start combat, blow up the sentry, and keep going until you have to drop your trace a bit. At which point, you just activate that good ole' -50 trace, and then nuke the sentry and continue.

It is not this games fault you can't think freely! The option to blunt force your way in via your matrix abilities is there, you just don't do it.

That is how I have done it, the best part is that the later systems are full of ice, meaning that you can slip past the watcher ice in turn-based mode even, while just keeping one harmless white ice alive and keep using the trace reducer. 5 extra trace per turn is less than you can surpress.

Some people own a Deck, other people are Deckers, you chum, are a wiz decker.

[knowthyself2]

The new matrix is jarringly incongruent with the game's turn-based nature.
Developers, take heed. You have made a terrible decision.

[shadeling]

I had a blast running through the new matrix system with my first character who was a decker as is always the first class I play in SR games.

Then with my second character who's a shaman/magey type, I was struck by the fact that I didn't have nearly as much fun with it. I mean don't get me wrong, it's a still a very nice upgrade from the truly boring original system and the new system mimics the SR pnp much more closely but playing through the new matrix as Is0bel wasn't nearly as enjoyable for me.

I'm still puzzling out as to why that is. Is it purely psychological in that without the decker being my main character was that the main reason I just didn't feel as invested in succeeding? Was it a combination of that and the fact that perhaps Is0bel's skill set wasn't as good?

It's an interesting conundrum to me, nonetheless.