I don't understand why people are comparing Gobbet to Glory

[adamaxis]

This whole post might be a spoiler

I'm not that far into HK due to the bugs, but I've seen enough to make me wonder why people are comparing Glory to Gobbet.

One of Glory's strong points is her personal loyalty to her friend, her strong moral conscience, and her desire to shut down Harrow's cult to prevent further corruption of the youth. She is so conscientious that, rather than heed the callings of her awakened upbringing and potentially be drug back into her dark past, she instead chooses to purges herself of most of her humanity.

If you talk with Gobbet about her history, she's like 'Yea I was on a team and they set the alarm off due to a stupid choice, so while they were debating what to do, I lit the building on fire and ran. They all burned alive but I got away.'

I honestly did a double-take in disbelief. I did not think she was serious.

The most hilarious part was, when you talk to her afterwards, she can't figure out what the moral of her story was supposed to be.. I literally laughed out loud at this.

So how did we go from preventing the corruption of the youth to haphazardly killing your entire team BY BURNING THEM ALIVE without so much as a regret or even second thought?

tldr;

Glory takes herself very serious and is a strong humanitarian albeit with a dark past.

Gobbet's just like... ♥♥♥♥ it.

The two are better opposites than parallels.

[Cutlass Jack]

Gobbet was 100% clear everyone got out of that building but her team. Who again, she warned and had more time to escape than anyone. The entire point of her plan was to get everyone out of the building so they could escape. And it worked. Except for you know, the highly stupid team she was with.

The only tennant who died in that incident was the one they weren't supposed to kill. Because of the aforementioned team of idiots. Not her. They screwed up so badly an underage girl was forced to come up with an escape plan for them.

That people might have potentially got caught in that fire (but didn't) is in no way comparable to willingly grabbing innocents off the street to sell their souls to your dark satanic cult. Glory knowingly did Very Bad Things. Not potentially. Actually and purposefully.

So yes, I agree they are not comparable.

[Darth Hernia]

As a shadowrunner, you always run the risk of causing collatoral damage. It'll be hyporcrital to presume it possible to not hurt anyone when you're explicit paid to hurt people. My PC was kind of a standup guy, but he's not a saint and he's willing to put his own team's safety above everyone else's.

Gobbet is much the same. She's a lot more intuitive in her approach thanks to Rat. But her heart's in the right place. I suspect Glory is the same way. She's no longer magical and cannot cause the same level of harm that's all.

Remeber that guy in the deckcon elevator? He seemed a nice guy. I mean, he let Is0bel go didn't he? He killed innocent people too. He did what he had to do to get his team out of a bind and caused a power outtage. I would've done the same in his shoes. You simply can't be a shadowrunner and not know the risk.

[hghwolf]

Speakeasi a écrit :

But her heart's in the right place.

Did she give any thought to the personal damages beyond their actual status as "alive" people might have incurred in the fire ? No. Did she go, yeah, I did something incredibly reckless and got stupidly lucky ? No. Did she ever, maybe, at some point, after that consider that one day life wasn`t going to work out ultimately in her favour ? No.

For ♥♥♥♥♥ sake, her entire storyline is about how her "go with your gut" approach is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded.

If her heart is in the right place millions of people have theirs in the wrong place. Gobbet is not a good person, and she has all the reflection of a... well a rat. She`s a good shaman but there`s a reason rats are considered vermin rather than adorable critters.

Glory willingly and knowingly did terrible things. Gobbet also did terrible things quite willingly. Not as terrible, true, but she doesn`t ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ own up to it. There is not a shred of personal responsibility in her tiny little ratty brain. It`s always someone elses fault and she always does the right thing. All we have is her word, and I doubt she`s being entirely truthful with the MC.

Over the course of this thread I`ve actually come to realize how very much I despise her.

[Darth Hernia]

hghwolf, minced pork river a écrit :

Speakeasi a écrit :

Glory willingly and knowingly did terrible things. Gobbet also did terrible things quite willingly. Not as terrible, true, but she doesn`t ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ own up to it. There is not a shred of personal responsibility in her tiny little ratty brain. It`s always someone elses fault and she always does the right thing. All we have is her word, and I doubt she`s being entirely truthful with the MC.

If she doesn't take responsibility for her actions why did she go back to the Sinking Ship? Granted her approach would've caused more destruction and chaos. But she went back there to save/mercy kill her friends. It wouldn't be fair to say she didn't own up to it.

Yeah in the end she couldn't have righted her wrong on her own w/o the PC; but neither could Glory. If there wasn't an option to purify that spirit without harming those children, Glory too would have to murder all of them. It came close. Glory lost it in there.

[hghwolf]

Speakeasi a écrit :

If she doesn't take responsibility for her actions why did she go back to the Sinking Ship?

To check up on it. And when she saw ♥♥♥♥ was ♥♥♥♥♥♥, from something she brought back no less, her first reaction is to blow the whole thing up rather than, y `know, try to ♥♥♥♥♥♥ the whole thing. Remove it from her life, because it`s become a burden.

Speakeasi a écrit :

Granted her approach would've caused more destruction and chaos. But she went back there to save/mercy kill her friends. It wouldn't be fair to say she didn't own up to it.

She went back to check up on it because it bothered her, personally, after the MC prodded her. She very much just wanted to forget the whole thing, and when she found that wasn`t an option... well see above.

Speakeasi a écrit :

Yeah in the end she couldn't have righted her wrong on her own w/o the PC

Indeed. BECAUSE SHE WOULD NOT HAVE TRIED. Sneaksy down, armsy the bombs, blowsy up the place ! That was her gut reaction and according to Gobbet, Gobbets gut reaction is always the right, correct, and best way to deal with things.

Seriously, I wonder if that weird Ramen place she likes can do me a Gobbet special; Rat poison and garbage.

Speakeasi a écrit :

but neither could Glory. If there wasn't an option to purify that spirit without harming those children, Glory too would have to murder all of them. It came close. Glory lost it in there.

True. But "saving the kids" was always on the table for her. She opened up and asked for the MCs help. It was something she never forgot and that she kept with her all the time. Personal. Responsibility.

[ichabod_scream]

Meh, so many opposites between Glory and Gobbet. Glory was like the dead inside goth girl, hardly any emotion left in that over-cybered body at all. Gobbet's soul is fully intact and she has alot of personality. Glory is loyal to the team and would never abandon her team mates. Gobbet would scury off from a bad situation. Sure she would give the team a heads up and give them the option to follow- but make no mistake, self-preservation is her priority- not the team.

[Apocalypse]

hghwolf, minced pork river a écrit :

Speakeasi a écrit :

But her heart's in the right place.

Did she give any thought to the personal damages beyond their actual status as "alive" people might have incurred in the fire ? No. Did she go, yeah, I did something incredibly reckless and got stupidly lucky ? No. Did she ever, maybe, at some point, after that consider that one day life wasn`t going to work out ultimately in her favour ? No.

For ♥♥♥♥♥ sake, her entire storyline is about how her "go with your gut" approach is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded.

If her heart is in the right place millions of people have theirs in the wrong place. Gobbet is not a good person, and she has all the reflection of a... well a rat. She`s a good shaman but there`s a reason rats are considered vermin rather than adorable critters.

Glory willingly and knowingly did terrible things. Gobbet also did terrible things quite willingly. Not as terrible, true, but she doesn`t ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ own up to it. There is not a shred of personal responsibility in her tiny little ratty brain. It`s always someone elses fault and she always does the right thing. All we have is her word, and I doubt she`s being entirely truthful with the MC.

Over the course of this thread I`ve actually come to realize how very much I despise her.

I actually like her character, she is fun and she reminds me of an eagle schamen I used to run with. He judged a lot of people by fire that little pyromaniac, iirc in the end we put a bullet in his head to get rid of all the attention that he draw with his burning psychosis. Setting on fire each and very building we fight in was not good for business. To be fair, he had some bad karma too, but in the end someone in the team was fed up with running out of a burning building each run. That character was still super fun to run with and gobbler has a little bit of that. She is fun to have in the team from a player's perspective, but most runners would prefer a more professional magical support.

[StalwartSoul]

Both are very well done characters. People can't help but compare them because they are both strong females that appeal on the same level.

I like Glory for the quiet moments, inner strength and believing in humanity. Gobbet is the raucous laughter, outrageous stories while stuffing yourself with junk food. Maybe I am romanticizing the idea. Strength to overcome and do good. And on the other side of the spectrum, live with no regrets.

[NoodleCup]

Honestly, I found gobbet and glory to both be a "best friend" kinda character, except in different ways. On one hand you have the "Fairweather friend (gobbet)" and then you have glory, who would stick with the team through and through rather than stick with her totem. Where gobbet is one you exchange stories with and have a good laugh, glory is one that will be there for you, emotionally or otherwise. Both are very good/necessary. But as a comedian once said, "all humor is rooted in underlying sadness(or insecurity... meh)." This still may very well be the point with gobbet. The fact that she tries to forget the other teams/communities she's left shows that she may indeed have a lot of remorse and is simply not showing it in an effort to trick herself into distancing the events. Glory can't be settled until the wrongs are righted in a manner of speaking. I can see the comparison, even if it is abstract. For the record I like both of the characters, but glory is (for me) my more "liked" character. Given, I've also had a little less than a year to interact with the DF cast, so there's that.

Oh yeah, if people want glory to be waif-able, then she needs to be bisexual, or the PC needs to be female. :P

[a basic bitch]

My guess is that every single person who wrote paragraphs about how Gobbet is a bad person, is also a teenager and ignored the constantly-referenced fact that Gobbet is a 19 year old girl.

Why are you surprised, or angry, that a teenage character made some questionable decisions, and may or may not have learned from them?

Hong Kong's characters are excellently written. I think many of you forget that 2/5 of your party are literally teenage girls, and are written to speak/act like slightly mature teenage girls.

[phantomreader42]

I got the impression Glory was less interested in preventing the corruption of the youth than in getting the drek AWAY from it with at least some of her hide intact (at least at first). She's not so good on the whole "Empathy" thing, or emotions in general. She's a very intriguing character, but not really similar to Gobbet or any other SRR characters that come to mind. So I'm not sure on the comparison. The only trait they seem to have in common is the empathy issues, but those manifest very differently, Glory's emotionless and uncaring while Gobbet just doesnt' seem to have learned how to deal with other people as human beings and Rat encourages a certain bizarre mindset.

Gobbet is only nineteen, still a kid, grew up in the slummiest of slums and is now a criminal working for a crime boss who calls her "Rat ♥♥♥♥" to her face. Yeah, she's damaged, so's Is0bel, but in a very different way. Gobbet seems to be using humor to mask her pain, unlike Glory's flat affect or Is0bel's shyness. Did I read the BBS right that she's trying to commission a cat costume for Koschei? Because that's hilarious, but doesn't make her any less nutty. And remember when I said Is0bel was damaged too? Did you notice the bit about how she just LOVES the idea of making Rhombus cry? These are not particularly healthy people. It's a screwed-up world, so that's to be expected.

[hghwolf]

a basic ♥♥♥♥♥ a écrit :

My guess is that every single person who wrote paragraphs about how Gobbet is a bad person, is also a teenager and ignored the constantly-referenced fact that Gobbet is a 19 year old girl.

She`s an orc. Orcs mature a lot faster than humans, and they don`t live as long either. 19 years is about half her expected natural lifespan.

That also explains how, at ~12, she was going on shadowruns and dating cute firemen.

[Darth Hernia]

hghwolf, minced pork river a écrit :

a basic ♥♥♥♥♥ a écrit :

My guess is that every single person who wrote paragraphs about how Gobbet is a bad person, is also a teenager and ignored the constantly-referenced fact that Gobbet is a 19 year old girl.

She`s an orc. Orcs mature a lot faster than humans, and they don`t live as long either. 19 years is about half her expected natural lifespan.

That also explains how, at ~12, she was going on shadowruns and dating cute firemen.

Theoritically they could live up to 50 years old. Orks and Trolls don't have really have an old age. They seemingly go past their prime years and die. I'm not sure if they mature at a faster rate than humans or not.

Remember (meta)human intelligence is more mental than physical. Goblinkins have mostly the same mental capacity as humans. There's no reason they should gain emotional intelligence at a faster or slower rate when the surroundings are the same.

[Darth Hernia]

hghwolf, minced pork river a écrit :

Speakeasi a écrit :

If she doesn't take responsibility for her actions why did she go back to the Sinking Ship?

To check up on it. And when she saw ♥♥♥♥ was ♥♥♥♥♥♥, from something she brought back no less, her first reaction is to blow the whole thing up rather than, y `know, try to ♥♥♥♥♥♥ the whole thing. Remove it from her life, because it`s become a burden.

Speakeasi a écrit :

Granted her approach would've caused more destruction and chaos. But she went back there to save/mercy kill her friends. It wouldn't be fair to say she didn't own up to it.

She went back to check up on it because it bothered her, personally, after the MC prodded her. She very much just wanted to forget the whole thing, and when she found that wasn`t an option... well see above.

Speakeasi a écrit :

Yeah in the end she couldn't have righted her wrong on her own w/o the PC

Indeed. BECAUSE SHE WOULD NOT HAVE TRIED. Sneaksy down, armsy the bombs, blowsy up the place ! That was her gut reaction and according to Gobbet, Gobbets gut reaction is always the right, correct, and best way to deal with things.

Seriously, I wonder if that weird Ramen place she likes can do me a Gobbet special; Rat poison and garbage.

Speakeasi a écrit :

but neither could Glory. If there wasn't an option to purify that spirit without harming those children, Glory too would have to murder all of them. It came close. Glory lost it in there.

True. But "saving the kids" was always on the table for her. She opened up and asked for the MCs help. It was something she never forgot and that she kept with her all the time. Personal. Responsibility.

She went back to check at all because she cared about Cadmus and her old gang. Would've been easier for her to just forget about the ship and let it sink.

I don't know. I tend to think the way you describe Glory -- considering all the angles, taking responsibilities way too seriously, and agonize over not getting the "perfect" outcome. That's why I appreciate Glory. But I also know that if Glory were real, she'd be unbearable to hang out with. Takes one to know one.

But I can also bond with Gobbet because she's the opposite of Glory and me. She's all Id and I wish I could be like that. Without friends like her I'll never learn to have any fun.

And at the end of the day you know both G's will have your back. Shouldn't that be enough?

[hghwolf]

Speakeasi a écrit :

Theoritically they could live up to 50 years old. Orks and Trolls don't have really have an old age. They seemingly go past their prime years and die. I'm not sure if they mature at a faster rate than humans or not.

Remember (meta)human intelligence is more mental than physical. Goblinkins have mostly the same mental capacity as humans. There's no reason they should gain emotional intelligence at a faster or slower rate when the surroundings are the same.

The internal chemistry matters. Puberty is a thing, magical metahuman or no. Obviously a human year isn`t two "orc years" but you`re still looking at a person with a fully developed body and psyche. It`d be naive to judge Gobbet like a teenager when she`s been fully adult for years.

Speakeasi a écrit :

She went back to check at all because she cared about Cadmus and her old gang. Would've been easier for her to just forget about the ship and let it sink.

It would, but it was bothering her now that the MC had made her remember. She`s extremely opposed to the idea of checking up when you wonder why she never did. She`s very much put it away in a drawer she doesn`t want to open again, and she only goes back because that drawer was openend and now it weighs on her.

Speakeasi a écrit :

And at the end of the day you know both G's will have your back. Shouldn't that be enough?

That`s the thing. I know Glory will. I can never be sure with Gobbet. Speaking outside of game mechanics, I`d distance myself from her immediately if I didn`t need Is0bel and the safeboat. I might even "arrange" a run to go bad in a way that removes Gobbet from the picture.

IMO, she`s less capable of friendship than Racter, and she`s a bomb waiting to explode very unpleseantly.