Are Shamans and mages alike?

[Kain]

Lorewise I mean, if you're a Shaman are you a Mage too? Or are they different kinds of magic? I know that Shamans take their power from totems, but I wonder if a Mage Shaman is rare of even possible in terms of the lore.

[Apocalypse]

It is rare, it is possible and there are casters who transcendent both concepts. Oh and totems don´t like it if you abondon them.

[shadeling]

No, Shamans have the Haste spells so that right there makes them much superior. ;)

I'm kidding, actuallly. Building a shaman/mage character is completely viable and that's actually what I'm currently playing now, especially since buying spirit tokens with the scant amount of Nuyen in HK doesn't make it very feasible to keep buying them over the course of the game so I leveled my shaman up enough to pick a totem (Cobra) and then focused more on mage/conjuring spells whilst also putting points into ranged/rifle.

Lorewise they learn their magic two different ways with shamanistic being more natural and mage being more studious but they're definitely compatible.

[HoroSaga]

From a game standpoint, the main difference is that a Mage is book-taught, where a Shaman seeks out wisdom and power from an extradimensional source. They're somewhat similar in execution, but the source of their training and power is significantly different.

I'd say that it's possible for a single individual to do both, though, but yes - it would probably be rare. Ultimately, I'd say it would come down to what type of Shaman it is. Certain totems probably wouldn't care to see their follower dabbling in other types of magic, while others might actively encourage it.

[wendigo211]

There are a bunch of different magic traditions in shadowrun, but hermetic mages and shamans tends to be main kinds.

Hermetic mages view magic as a science, with precise rituals and recipe like spells they practice magic. They tend to be like Gandalf, Merlin or Harry Potter and they probably learn their magic at a university. Traditionally only they could summon elementals.

Shamans get their power from their totem, they also tend to have some personality traits associated with their totems (e.g. dog shamans tend to be loyal). Shamans view magic as an art and use dances and emotion driven performances to pratice magic (e.g. they may never cast a spell the same way twice). Traditionally only they could summon spirits.

Because of how they interpret magic there probably isn't much crossover. There probably aren't too many totems (maybe a couple of the insects, but insects have their own agendas) that would like their followers applying rigid means of control over their power.

[Ninthshadow]

I suppose the biggest obstacle for a mage/shaman crossover is essentially head versus heart.

The hardest requirement for both is to be magically active. Much like being 'force sensitive' in Star wars, you are or you aren't, it's pretty much simple as that. So either case has already passed the hardest entry hurdle for each 'class'.

As said about, Hermetic magic (mages) is essentially a scientific process. It's quantified, shaped. Their entire field gets by treating magic as any other natural force; The more you learn about it, the more you can control it.

Shamans are instinctual, revolving around spirits and the all important totem. Like a spirit guide or deity figure, they reward and grant power based on behaviour. Shamans meet or attract the totem spirit that already best suits their outlook or lifestyle.

To use the above example, followers of the Dog totem don't become loyal, they typically are loyal to get the attention or affinity for the dog totem anyway.

Assuming the individual can balance these two mindsets (magic as a science and 'spiritual' for lack of a better word), the next problem is simply having the dedication to live that way. Researching magic and appeasing a totem spirit is like having two full time jobs. Unfortunately for Shamans, displeasing or angering a totem spirit can also have consequences which makes it a risky proposition.

Most mages would probably prefer to avoid having a spirit keep happy to maintain their abilities. Most Shamans probably wouldn't want to risk neglecting their totem nor have the patience to 'learn' what they can do instinctually, gift-wrapped by their totem for good behaviour.

[Taritu]

Don't know how the lore changed from 4th on, but in 1st thru 3rd the main mechanical game differences were that Shamans have totems and summon nature spirits (which in the game, doesn't cost money) and Hermetics summon elementals (which is expensive, but you can stack up elementals.)

Elementals in game were quite different from nature spirits.

Both groups could cast all spells.

The computer game handles them quite differently.

Basically I'd say if you have a totem, you're a shaman. If not, Hermetic. The differences beyond that don't really show in the computer game.

[Kain]

Whoa, thank you all for the replies.

[Raincloud Man]

The pen and paper game, at least in 2nd ed basically says that both groups use the same magic, they just access it in different ways.
Shamen sort of uses spirits as their middlemen whereas mages just grab the raw power and forces it to do what they want through will alone.

Also what previous posters said, shamen have it easier with learning new spells and the like because they have spirits doing the heavy mental lifting, so their drek is cheaper. Not in this game though =p

[Kyopo Von Elsass]

there are also other magics than hermetic mage and shamans, basically, since the awakening, if enough peoples believes some magic works, it will work, for example, feng shui in hong kong is very powerful. There is also the adept skill tree, the magic they summon enhance their body and martial arts movements.