Shadows of Hong Kong - Karma, equipment (items and cyberware) and nuyen.

[Hurodrik]

I'm not really a minmaxer, but one thing that I usually check in the SRR games after my first experience with DMS years ago is how much karma one can earn in one playthrough. Dragonfall made me also start considering just how much nuyen I can earn, more or less, so that I can plan my character and my purchases accordingly and avoid needless frustration and restarts (because if I feel that a given build doesn't work, that's what I end up doing) since there is no way to "grind" experience or money in this series to correct mistakes.

I found that info for SRHK, so that is covered, but I didn't find anything of the sort for Shadows of Hong Kong. I get that it's a short expansion, but I'd still like to have a ballpark of how much karma I can expect, if I'll be able to buy new stuff, etc.

I know you export an end game character from the main campaign, but I'm not sure what carries over. I assume all karma spent and installed cyberware goes along, but will I also carry over my items and my nuyen? Also, is there new cyber/bioware in the expansion? Any new equipment worth buying?

Here's hoping someone here can shed light on these doubts, and maybe the thread could be useful for more people later.

[//Caz]

So I loaded up a few saves to try an answer some of these questions. I definately bought upgrades for both my assault rifle and my sniper rifle in the dlc campaign, tho as far as I can remember, I only upgraded each of them once.


Character in the aftermath (end) of the main campaign:

• Karma: 185 spent, 2 unspent, 187 total
  
• Nuyen: 1.764

Character at the start of the dlc:

• Karma: 185 spent, 2 unspent, 187 total
  
• Nuyen: 2.556
  
• Same items, cyberware (I only ever bought a datajack) and consumables as the character had at the end of the main campaign

Character at the end of the dlc:

• Karma: 214 spent, 1 unspent, 215 total
  
• Upgraded items ie. new items acquired during the dlc

My total amount of nuyen definately increased from the end of the campaign to the start of the dlc, so it seems like you might start with a bit more nuyen than you ended the main campaign with. Alternately it could be a preset amount, but it would be an odd number, if that was the case.

EDIT: I didn't min-max anything, so it is entirely possible that I missed additional karma somewhere during my runs. I also didn't do the NPC's sidemissions (Gobbet, Isobel, Gaichu and that fourth NPC in the basement) with this character, so I might be missing some karma from those runs too. I did, however, do all other missions that I was given.

[Hurodrik]

Originally posted by //Caz:

EDIT: I didn't min-max anything, so it is entirely possible that I missed additional karma somewhere during my runs. I also didn't do the NPC's sidemissions (Gobbet, Isobel, Gaichu and that fourth NPC in the basement) with this character, so I might be missing some karma from those runs too. I did, however, do all other missions that I was given.

Yes, the missions you didn't take probably account for the karma you are missing from the main campaign. IIRC, the total karma for the main campaign should be something around 215 to 220, and each of those missions gives around 8 to 10 karma, depending on how you resolve them.

I don't know if I might be misreading what you said, so just to be clear, did you play all the missions in the dlc? I know there should be something like 5, being 3 main and 2 side missions, or something like that. But thank you very much anyway. That clears a lot of my doubts and helps set my deranged mind at ease. =]

Edit: Going a little off topic here, but there's a doubt I just stumbled upon on my current character regarding racial limits and items. I'm playing a human mage, so my willpower and spellcasting are capped at 9. If I bring them to 9 by spending karma, will the charm you can buy in the magic store (that gives +1 to willpower and spellcasting) still have an effect?

[//Caz]

Originally posted by Hurodrik:

I don't know if I might be misreading what you said, so just to be clear, did you play all the missions in the dlc?

I did do all of the missions in the dlc. All missions that I found, anyway.

[Hurodrik]

Originally posted by //Caz:

Originally posted by Hurodrik:

I don't know if I might be misreading what you said, so just to be clear, did you play all the missions in the dlc?

I did do all of the missions in the dlc. All missions that I found, anyway.

I see. So I should expect around 30 karma. Good to know. Thanks a lot for the help!

[frdnwsm]

I managed to get 197 karma by the time I headed to Prosperity Towers. I may have missed a point or two, but that's probably close to the maximum. There's some more there and in the Walled City; I forget exactly how much; not a huge amount. By the end of the Tai Po run I had almost 250 karma.

I haven't actually tabulated NuYen available. How much I spend is somewhat variable. A heavily cybered build is more costly. There's a couple of items I know I am going to want, so I just budget carefully until I get them, then buy other gear as needed.

[Hurodrik]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

I haven't actually tabulated NuYen available. How much I spend is somewhat variable. A heavily cybered build is more costly. There's a couple of items I know I am going to want, so I just budget carefully until I get them, then buy other gear as needed.

That's what I usually do too, in SRR. Always made sure I had enough for the best AR and sniper, which is the kind of weapons I use most. But I've recently started a new playthrough of SRHK to try my first mage in Shadowrun. Since I've never played a mage in SRR, I'm still not very confident about which spells to pick, for example, because I don't know how the late game ones perform, so that makes me unsure of just how much I'll need to save.

I've looked at some charts and some guides for SRHK and I think I'll have enough for the spells I want on the main campaign. The lack of data for the dlc made that part of the accounting harder to estimate, which is why I decided to ask.

Your 250 karma number is quite nice. Would love to make my character even more bad ass, although from what I read the challenge in the combat ramps up in the dlc, so that might compensate for it.

[frdnwsm]

Mage and Qi adept are the only ones I have finished the full game with so far. The thing about mages is that you can spread out your choices amongst several specialities. Conjuration for the haste spells, Spirit Summoning for a totem (which also lets you summon spirits, as a side bonus). You don't need all your spells to be direct damage spells; I grabbed a bunch of spells to buff up the other crew members. Heals, Aims, Hastes ... all great to cast on the crew. And don't forget Wild Aim, from the Dig!

And stuff like strip armor or blind are good for rendering powerful foes squishy and helpless. You can use armor strip and blind on tanks and gun turrets, for example. There are actually too many spells to choose from! Some folks love life siphon, for example; I have never had the chance to fool around with things like that. Too busy getting the basic stuff.

We need more spell slots!

Grab 6 ranks of cyber affinity and you can get some helpful chrome additions while still retaining a full 6 spell slots.

[Hurodrik]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

Grab 6 ranks of cyber affinity and you can get some helpful chrome additions while still retaining a full 6 spell slots.

I was pondering about that too. I already have 3 in ciber affinity for the +1, which I already have planned. What made me hold my horses about going to 6 until now was the fact that good bioware is very expensive and I'm still not sure of how much I'll blow in spells. Knowing myself I'll probably end up doing it closer to endgame. 15 karma is not that much of an investiment after the basics are covered, so I'll do it if I think I have enough nuyen for it to be worth it.

[frdnwsm]

I was never able to get to 6 ranks of cyber affinity (for a magic type build) until after the Walled City; i.e., in the extended campaign. Not enough karma to get everything else I wanted. But 3 ranks will let you get the jolt alert (no esence loss!) and the magnetic arm. Then you can have immunity to grenades without having to have Duncan along. Or if you do use him, this will let you split up into two groups and flank the enemy, with both pairs being grenade proof.

You could argue that the jolt alert is actually redundant if you get the magnetic arm, since most stuns are due to flashbangs, but it's only 1000 NuYen and has no attached essence loss, so to me, I figure I may as well grab it. After all, every now and then some melee type will make a run at you and try to whack you upside the head with a sword to stun you. With a magical build, I'm not planning on using the arm for anything else, like the mono whip or cyber spurs or a palm data jack, so there isn't any location conlfict there.

There's other cyber stuff you might argue in favor of, to increase your armor, aim, quickness or what have you, but I like those two items. I can accomplish the other thngs with magic. Leopard totem, for example, gives you passive +1 to armor and movement.

[Hurodrik]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

There's other cyber stuff you might argue in favor of, to increase your armor, aim, quickness or what have you, but I like those two items. I can accomplish the other thngs with magic. Leopard totem, for example, gives you passive +1 to armor and movement.

Yeah, I have the leopard, but I think I'll also get the orthoskin, to hit the cap without the need to spell buffs. I play with 6cha + the fetish that gives +1cha, so i don't need the skin slot for anything else. I get what you mention about the magnetic arm, but for roleplaying purposes I don't like using cyber that removes anything, especially while playing a mage. I usually stick to bioware and the jolt alert because of that.

I've been thinking about dipping the toe into a little Qi casting for those passives like stride and the one that gives you light cover against magic. But if I ever do that it will be closer to end game. I'm 6 missions in now and standing at 7 will, 7 spellcasting, because I spread my points around at the start to get a token and cyber affinity 3, for example, so I'll need to focus for a while. Otherwise I won't be able to equip the best spells when they become available.

Is there any new armor in the new campaign? I find all the top tier armors in SRHK so awfull looking that I even looked around for mods that gave me more options, but sadly didn't find any.

[frdnwsm]

OK, whatever is good for you. Dermal cross sheath is nice; if I recall, it gives you armor plus regeneration ability. Costs more than 1 essence, though. But if you want to avoid cyber altogether, you certainly can. The Qi stride ability will give you passive movement. But it does take up a spell slot, which you might find inconvenient. All the Qi stuff does; they are designed to be self buffs for an adept's physical attacks, not for active spell casting mages. You're better off getting advanced armor and haste spells, which you can cast on either yourself or others.

I just finished up another regular game. I may end up with a new karma record total. 197 going into prosperity tower; apparently freeing Raymond from the ASSIST machine is worth 10, and penetrating to the heart of the walled city gets you another 8. No extra karma for chasing off the Yama King, alas. So that's 215 before hitting the extended game scenarios.

You also get fiddly little bits of karma for doing odd stuff along the way. I got 1 karma for freeing the mutant experimental monster from the containment lab, for example. I have no idea why; I shooed it off into the elevators, where it disappeared, never to be seen again. Killing one of the Yama King's servitors also netted me 1 karma; again, no clue why, since killing the others did no such thing. Maybe it was uglier than the rest?

As for money, you also do get a big cash infusion at the end, if you have gotten the incriminating financial data evidence on Josephine Tsang. Kindly Cheng drops 5,000 NuYen on you for giving her the chance to destroy her old foe. This is not a huge amount, considering that items like the Ares HVAR cost 4500 or so, but it does carry over to the extended campaign. Every little bit helps.

As for armor ... well, armor is supposed to be functional, not esthetic. Yeah, they all look like drek, but they do the job.