The Shaman Part 1: a profession in need of improvement

[frdnwsm]

Whether you pick the pre-generated Shaman class or create a free-form build with a strong focus on summonings, you will encounter a significant problem with the fetishes. One wonders if the designers actually tested this build at higher levels.

1) Shrine spirits. Shamans can summon local spirits for 2 rounds. That's pretty nice, but so can anyone. Since shrine spirits never break away from control, every character I have ever made had gotten 3 ranks of spirit summoning. Every ... single ... one. This nets you a totem and the spirit summoning ability; there is NO reason for anyone not to get this skill. Nothing unique there.

2) Useful support spells. Shamans have useful buff spells like haste 2 or 3, barrier spells and so on. Sorry, not unique either; anyone can learn these spells also, unless they go heavy cyber build.

3) Elemental spirit summoning. AH! Here is where the Shaman shines, right? Well, not so much, actually. Even with charisma and spirit control of 8, my shaman would lose control of a summoned spirit within 3 rounds of combat, UNLESS he had picked Dove as a totem. Choosing Dove as your totem is pretty much mandatory if you want a summoned spirit to last for an entire combat.

This would actually be OK, if summoning fetishes were easier to come by. A Force VI fetish costs 1200 NuYen! With cash flow a definite concern in HK, you are lucky if you can afford to buy 2 of these during the entire basic game. Now, you could of course buy weaker fetishes; you could afford maybe 4 Force V fetishes. Still not exactly something you can use every combat. You can buy a whole bunch of Force 1 or 2 fetishes, but the summoned spirits are pretty weak; hardly worth getting. Nor can you expect to find any fetishes. There are exactly two freebees in the whole basic game, and they are weak as heck. Poor game design here; you have a power that is pretty nice, but you can't afford to use it.

Summoned spirits are to a Conjurer what drones are to a Rigger. Imagine if a rigger's drone exploded after every combat, and he had to buy a new one each time. Ouch!

4) Acid Bolt. The signature attack spell of the Conjurer. Now, Acid Bolt is in fact a pretty decent attack spell, except for one thing. The accuracy is abyssmally bad. At the start of the extended campaign, my Shaman finally had an accuracy (at fairly close range) of around 80-85% with Acid Bolt IV. This was actually a pretty vicious attack spell by that time. However, to get to that point, he needed Charisma 9, Conjuring 8, Aim 2 and the Alpha eye cyberware. Early on, his accuracy was total crap. (The same is true for mages and their powerbolt spell, btw.)

Summation: The biggest improvement I can suggest for a summoning build would be a significant drop in the cost of summoning fetishes. Since HBS is unlikely to change this on their own, you can justify a bit of game manipulation here. Go to the cheat console and give yourself a fixed amout of cash; I'd suggest 12,000 NuYen, which will let you summon a Force VI spirit ten times during the basic game. You have to use this cash ONLY for buying fetishes; no cheating!

[OptoNick]

1-2) You can write same thing about pretty much every class. Everyone can spend few points on Drone Control to bring a drone which will reassemble after each mission. Everyone can spend few points on Cyberware affinity for +1 essence. Everyone can spend few points on Chi Casting for immunity from magical crits. And so on.

There are 2 reasons not to do it: a) roleplaying; b) it's a waste of Karma early in the game and useless late in the game.

3) Legwork and Luck. Even without Dove totem you have to be close to the spirit - then it'll be about 5 turns at average for skilled shaman. I once made it to ~10 turns of control in Dragonfall, with 50+ % chance of breakaway.

If you're spending a lot of money on fetishes, you're doing it wrong. In 3/4 of the fights you don't need help from spirits at all, buffs/debuffs/barriers are more than enough. Then you have free shrine spirits. Then you have dirt-cheap low-tier fetishes - perfect bullet-sponges with a chance of good help in attack, they are way more worthwile than expensive fetishes. And only then, last call, come high-tier fetishes.

I've finished both Dragonfall (Eagle totem) and Antumbra Saga (Creator=Dove) on Very Hard, which are significantly harder than HK, as a pure shaman. In Dragonfall I've used only 3 fetishes in the whole game: one tier 2 at the end of Humanis mission for distraction, two tier 6 in final fight. In my first playthrough of HK where I brought Gobbet on every mission, I used her free Rat fetish 3 times, too: first time out of curiosity, two times in mini-campaign: Detention three-sided fight and final fight.

4) Yep, got about 65-70% base accuracy in DF (Cha 11, Conj 9), too, +15% from Eagle totem, +Mark Target from decker = pretty decent last-choice attack option.

[frdnwsm]

OK, I have finished 3 games with summoning build characters; once in DF and twice in HK, on hard level. That's not a problem. A build heavy in both Conjuring and Hermetic spells is very useful for keeping himself and his crewmates well buffed in combat. You can easily finish either game without using ANY summoning fetishes at all. However, you can say the same about any build with those spells. In HK, I built a "gunmage", a character with 8 ranks in ranged weapon skills, who also had 6 ranks of Hermetic spells and 5 of Conjuring. Basically, he was like a shaman who traded in Summoning skills for ranged combat. He could cast support spells the same way, as well as use assault rifles rather effectively.

My magic heavy Shaman in HK ended up with Haste 3, Wild Aim, Heal 2, Blind, Lighning Barrier and Strip Armor 2:focus. All very useful spells for buffing up himself and his mates and harassing the enemy in combat. Used in a support role, he was very effective.

My specific gripe is with the cost of the upper end summoning fetishes. Why have something that you can use only once or twice during an entire campaign, purely due to financial considerations? I'm not saying that you should be able to use such high powered ability all the time, but cutting the cost of a fetish by, say, 50% would be a decent compromise. We can't affect the prices, though, which is why I suggested creating a fetish "slush fund" as a work around solution.

Let's take Gobbet as a comparison. She ends up getting a Force V nature elemental, as well as her Devil Rat fetish. She can use both of these freely, every combat. Why? Bacause they are renewed free of charge at the start of every mission. And if they turn on her, she can simply use her Destroy Spirit ability to fix the problem.

Every build in HK ends up being strapped for cash to some degree. Making the high end fetishes that expensive is like an additonal slap in the face for a summoner.

[OptoNick]

Thing is, there are not much things to buy for a pure shaman - no cyberware (I don't even use Tailored Pheromons), spells are cheaper and less numerous than for hermetic mage, even full upgrade of Acid Bolt is one of the cheapest weapon lineup.

Mixed builds, like yours, require a lot more nuyen, sure. Some specializations must suffer from that - everyone are choosing permanent tools instead of consumable fetishes, and that's why summoning feels underwhelming for mixed builds.

Secondly, there's a balance between different summoner playstyles: one player may carry six cheap fetishes, another can gamble with one-two tier 6 fetishes - that's pretty close both in terms of price and average efficiency.

[frdnwsm]

Mixed builds are the most effective; this is why they included the open ended category. It would be different if the Shadowrun games were like a D&D based system, such as Baldur's Gate. There, you pick a profession and have to adhere to the skills and abilities of that group. But in Shadowrun games, you are someone who, in your words to Kindly Cheng, "does what needs doing". You are both willing and able to learn any skills or use any gear that increases your ability to get things done to your employer's satisfaction.

I am uncertain what you mean by "pure shaman". Do you mean getting only spells from the conjuring sphere, and no hermetic spells at all? And no physical attack modes besides spells? No ranged/thrown/melee etc.? No cyber affinity, hence no cyberwear?

That would be seriously limiting. It would also be a significant challenge. Hmm, now you have me thinking about trying such a run. Curse you, and curse my OCD too!

I'm going to go lie down and see if the urge goes away.

BTW, I also built a cyber-shaman. A particularly obnoxious build for those who are into strict role-play, but oddly effective. I won't go into details, lest you run away screaming. Let's just say that Whips, ranged weapon skill, cyber affinity 6 and a crap-load of cyberware, along with Charisma 8, Spirit Summoning 8 and Dove totem factored into it.

[OptoNick]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

I am uncertain what you mean by "pure shaman". Do you mean getting only spells from the conjuring sphere, and no hermetic spells at all? And no physical attack modes besides spells? No ranged/thrown/melee etc.? No cyber affinity, hence no cyberwear?

Exactly that.
No lie, it was ultra-hardcore when I played that way first time in Antumbra Saga, but it helped to learn the art of territorial control: barriers, Fog and Shadow combo is super-effective, can immediately turn the tide in any battle, no matter how bad you are outnumbered and outgunned.
After that I waltzed through Dragonfall with ease - APEX mission fight was a special kind of fun, because this map is a perfect playground both for a conjurer and a summoner.

Also, there's a Dual Blur spell in HK that looks like a cheat - doubles the effect of regular Blur with no drawbacks besides +200 nY in price, makes shaman's life even easier.

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I have no doubts that mixed builds are effective, that's how I started, too. Now I'm just having more fun with builds with one attack specialization. Like in my first playthrough of HK I was playing a pure human mage (WP 11, SC 10 with foci) - had a lot Karma to spend, invested some of it in Quickness and Dodge (8 points both, IIRC), and I was standing on the ley-lines in the open, feeling like untouchable arcane master. Would it be more effective to get a rifle and level up to Full-Auto? - of course; but it definitely wouldn't be that fun.

[frdnwsm]

Oh, I can easily see the possibilities; I used some of them in my mixed conjuring builds. I had lightning barrier and air barrier for the Prosperity Tower mission. Those plus Gobbet's acid fog really cut down enemy movement. (I had Is0bel for decker, of course, and Duncan for ranged weapons backup). I just am not sure I like the idea of not having access to buff spells like aim, or losing heal spells.

If I bring Gobbet along to take care of aim/heal, and bring Is0bel on any run with paydata (which is 90% of them), that only leaves me with one rotatable NPC slot open. I suppose if I wanted to bring both Duncan/Gaichu and Racter on a run (Ares!) I could leave Gobbet home and use medikits instead of her heal spell, though that will add to the monetary expenses.

A pure build hermetic mage is more suited for direct combat, not to mention having access to aim and heal spells. A pure close combat Qi adept is pretty vicious also, and we don't even have to mention a ranged specialist street samurai build. Steyr AR on full autofire, anyone?

I did construct a cyber build that used only thrown weapons ... shurikens and grenades, basically ... which was somewhat challenging, mainly because of the limited range and damage done. He had no spells, though, being totally cybered to the max. A pure shamanic build sounds about on an equal level of difficulty. I guess I'll do a shamanic run and see how it compares.

[frdnwsm]

None of which addresses the problem of fetish cost. I mean, to me, a major part of going the Shamanic route is being able to summon spirits. It's integral to the definition of the profession. I still say they should revise the costs of these fetishes downward. Otherwise, NPC Gobbet ends up being able to summon far more spirits during a campaign than my conjurer PC, simply because she doesn't have to pay for them.

This only applies to the basic game, of course. If you get Kindly the info she wants, you get an end game payout of 5,000. You could use that to buy 4 Force VI fetishes; since the extended game only has 4 scenarios, you can bring one of them on each run.

[OptoNick]

Last time I finished game+addon as a fully-cybered handrazors streetsam with 15k nuyen in a wallet - scrapped the bottom early and mid-game to the point of empty inventory, but bought everything (top-tier cyberware/bioware, Armor=8) before got to Plastic-Faced Man. After that there was nothing to buy for me except medkits from time to time. Bought some stuff for my team, including one fetish for Gobbet (never used it though). Kindley's payout and lot of money from addon side-runs creating some financial disbalance between beginning and end-game.

Speaking of cheap summoning: Kiluminati Alabrad in mini-campaign carries three Tier 5 fetishes, if I remember correct, and his hire price is 450 nuyen. Brought him to a final Tai Po mission when did Charmed Life playthrough of mini-campaign. Also there's a bug on hiring menu screen, he has more conjuring spells than it shows.

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BTW, also planning to play as throwing weapons character, but with one alteration. It will be dwarven pyromaniac, so besides grenades and shurikens I'm going to get grenade launcher as well, but without heavy investments in its accuracy :D

[frdnwsm]

There is actually no shortage of cash in the HK extended game. You have probably bought yourself the best armor, spells, cyberware etc. by the end of the basic game. It's getting to that point which requires good budgeting techniques.

" It will be dwarven pyromaniac, so besides grenades and shurikens I'm going to get grenade launcher as well, "

I'm sure you are aware of the hazards of using grenades in the extended game scenarios, but I'll just mention it here for the sake of less experienced players.

[OptoNick]

Nah, that character will be for DF :) For next HK run I'll try non-armed, non-charismatic decker-rigger - wanna fail all etiquette checks and try out new drones in tight situations

[frdnwsm]

As an update: I'm about halfway through the "pure shaman" run, and I must say, the limitations are annoying. Yes, I know you say you wanted to do it for the challenge, but it irks me that for about 90% of the basic game, Gobbet, an NPC, will be a much better shaman, as well as being more generally useful to the party.

So far, I have charisma 7/conjuration 6/summoning 6. I managed to buy one Force 3 fetish so far, which I have used. Spells so far: Haste 2, Air barrier, Lightning barrier, Blur 1, Armor 2 and Slow 2. Weapon: Acid Bolt 3. This does decent damage when it hits, but my accuracy is still far from the best.

The higher level conjuration spells are so expensive, there is almost no chance I can be able to buy another fetish before heading off to Prosperity Tower. It's barely possible that I will be able to reserve the 1200 NuYen payout from Maximum Law for a Force 6 fetish, but I have the feeling I will need to buy other items also, which will cut into that money.

By contrast, Gobbet at this point has a Force 4 nature fetish, plus her devil rat token. She has no chance of losing control in the first two rounds of summoning. She can use her two summonings every mission, since they renew automatically, free of charge. She has the destroy spirit skill, and her acid fog spell is better than either of my barriers. She can actually drop it on top of an enemy, hitting them automatically, which my barriers cannot accomplish. She can also handle Wild Aim, has a heal spell, and after her final upgrade she will be able to use the Blind spell as well.

This pure shaman build won't actually reach it's full potential until about midway through the extended game. And it's all due to limited cash flow.

[OptoNick]

To be fair, all crew members (except Izz) have some OP abilities that are not available for the player: rigger can only envy Racter about Koschei and that gun which boosts his abilities, street sam would want Duncan's Mercy Kill and Subdue abilities. Gaichu is rather weak by himself (my hadrazors streetsam was way more powerful melee fighter), needs buffs from support, but has a very diverse assortment of attacks.

In DF Glory had handrazors which were not avialable for player, Dietrich had Nerve Bolt with special ability to flush enemies from covers instead of Acid Bolt.

No point in comparison with them :)

[frdnwsm]

"No point in comparison with them :)"

There certainly is. My decker/rigger was a better decker than Is0bel, my close combat adept was better than Gaichu at melee (his ghoul abilities are a whole different ball game ... go full Red Samurai skills with Gaichu and he'll be a lot weaker), my ranged cyber build street sam was better than Duncan (Duncan's ranged skill stops at 7 so he can't use the highest quality sniper rifle, nor does he get an autoloader arm) ... there is no hermetic mage NPC for comparison, but my mage kicked butt.

Racter is about the equal of a PC rigger; but only due to Koschei's abilities. Racter's drone control tops out at a mere 6, so he can't use the best class of regular drone. Nor can you give him a second class A drone; he needs that stupid control gun in a gear slot to keep Koschei at top form. OK, you can replace his pistol, but then you risk the gear duplictaion bug popping up. Not to mention that giving him another drone costs money, in a cash strapped environment.

But compare NPC Gobbet to your PC pure shaman build, and Gobbet wins. It's not just her abilites, it's the fact that, as I have said before, she doesn't pay for her fetishes.