Can you play 100% unarmed?

[Euphytose]

Is it possible to play using only the unarmed tree? I'm dumping everything into body, strength, close combat, and unarmed.

But everywhere I see people using the qi tree as well, is it mandatory?

[di eshor ribly]

It's not mandatory, but the Qi tree gives you access to some abilities that close combat specialists might find useful. Like Killing Hands (bonus unarmed damage), Stride (more movement), Bonded Stride (the first two combined), etc. etc.

You could also just add a bunch of cyber. Or just be a regular joe shmoe who punches people. It all works in some fashion.

[Euphytose]

I plan on adding more cyberware, I've already purchased the +1 armor and +1 body, which I will upgrade later.

The problem is that when I'm out in the open, I get demolished, it's hard to attack someone safely. In my previous run I used Gaichu as a bullet sponge. With his stance, bonus dodge skill, regen, he has all the tools to survive.

[Zephyr]

There are reason to use Qi with melee combat in general, and with unarmed. You can actually use Qi to boost your unarmed damages, and the techniques you unlock can do tremendous amount of damage as well has having nice side effects.
Out of unarmed, some melee weapons have Qi requirement, mostly the magical ones.

You can totally play unarmed, it probably won't be optimal, but there are ways to make it work. High body will allow you to tank well as well unlock some cyberware to enhance your performances, assuming you don't go the Qi route. But then again, if you want pure unarmed, you won't touch cyberarms, so the point is moot.

You can go around stripping people of their armors and fishing for crits, especially with disarm at high level. Kinda like Gaichu, he's not a hard hitter, but more here to disrupt ennemy lines. You could also load yourself with drugs to deal more damage and get more AP.

[Zadok]

Caution: Killing Hands can't be purchased later in the game! It is an extremely strong spell, passively giving you damage and actively adding even more damage for a few turns. It only requires Qi 1 for 1 Karma. Since Cyber only affects the cooldown the passive part remains unaffected. A good spell no matter how chromed up you are. You can easily ignore the rest of the Qi spells. Later on, when KH is no longer available, you'd need Qi 7 to equip the bonded spell KH & Stride instead.
To skip on KH is more like a pure self-restriction, as it means skipping on a powerful spell that costs next to nothing. Nonetheless I am convinced it is possible to skip on.

[Euphytose]

Just to make sure, these skills work with weapons such as the stun glove right?

It doesn't make much sense to me to call knuckles or a stun glove "unarmed" though. Unarmed is just fists.

How much body do I need? I'm playing on hard. Currently I have 70hp and I don't feel that it's enough, one crit and my health goes down very fast.

I don't want to go full qi route now since I'm already at unarmed 6, so the points would be a bit wasted.

[di eshor ribly]

Killing Hands and Bonded Stride/KH both work with the stun glove, cestus type weapons (knuckles), and the StunHand cyberweapon.

The more health the better for the melee warriors. Most other archetypes can get by with 50-60, but the melee people are literally asking to get shot in the face. It's still not too late for the qi route unless you got all cybered up. You'd probably want unarmed/melee combat up around 6 anyway just so you have combat abilities. It's only 28 karma to get Qi up to rank 7 and get the spell that permanently gives you a cover bonus, for instance.

[Zadok]

You probably want Cyber Affinity 6 for +2 Essence, thus you need Body 6. Apparently you have that already. If you take too much damage look for other defenses. Armor, healing, cover or even Dodge. Martial Defense is one of the more useful Qi spells imo and grants cover. Conjuring has Armor, high Qi casting also gives Armor. Best option: better movements. If you expose yourself to too many opponents you may get blown up of course and there are always ways to prevent that. Also other melees may help to share the pain. Else stun grenades or some defensive Conjuring spells. Your party can carry some of that burden.

Originally posted by di eshor ribly:

It's only 28 karma to get Qi up to rank 7 and get the spell that permanently gives you a cover bonus, for instance.

That's half the truth: You also need Willpower 7 for that. That's another 27 (+28 = 55). Then again you refer to KH & Stride - Martial Defense 1 only needs Qi 5. That means doing things in halves yet if MD is all you want you get away with 15+14 = 29 Karma. But yeah: Assuming it is too late to get KH on Qi 1 you'd want Qi 7 or nothing.

[Euphytose]

Is there still the bug with cyber affinity 6 and the stats costing as if the bonuses were "real" from the cyber?

Also, should I buy the medium magic cover spell?

[bunny de fluff]

Unarmed Qi kungfu master is very hard. I am now playing unarmed Adept and got my rear handed to me every combat. Big mistake to play as first character of the game lol. I play like a sneaky coward hiding behind corners and only engage enemies when they run up to me. And only after casting Stride and Martial Defence 1 I dare step out from my cover.

[Euphytose]

Yeah, I feel like melee is not threatening enough in this game.

[di eshor ribly]

Originally posted by Euphytose:

Yeah, I feel like melee is not threatening enough in this game.

Melee is plenty threatening enough if you build for it right. There's nothing *quite* like making a Troll character, getting 7-8 Body, 7ish Close Combat, and as much Strength as you can dump on him. Those 100+ damage crits sure are pretty.

[Zadok]

Originally posted by bunny de fluff:

I play like a sneaky coward hiding behind corners and only engage enemies when they run up to me. And only after casting Stride and Martial Defence 1 I dare step out from my cover.

Good thinking! It's the right thing to do. He who arrives first is relaxed, while the one arriving late is exhausted (~Sunzi). You can beat the hardest settings with that. Wouldn't it be a little boring if you'd just straight out beat up wimps all the time? Can't hurt to need a little more strategy than that imo.

Melee takes a while to develop. At the end it is pretty strong. Unarmed specifically sports rather high damage. Offense can be the best defense eventually. They can't hit back once they are dead after all.

Originally posted by Euphytose:

Is there still the bug with cyber affinity 6 and the stats costing as if the bonuses were "real" from the cyber?

Also, should I buy the medium magic cover spell?

Is that a bug? It is part of the "allows cyber to surpass racial limits" thing I'd say.
Magic Resistance isn't a good choice. If you let Mages attack you all day you'll be screwed no matter what. To need that Resistance already means you messed up. Perhaps I underestimate it but assuming it is what it says, equal to standing in medium cover that is, it's as good as useless. You don't duck when magic spells come flying: You geek the mage. Else run.
It would be okay'ish if it wasn't for limited Spell Slots. There are better options.

[frdnwsm]

I should like to point out that "unarmed" doesn't mean using just totally bare fists. You CAN do it that way as a challenge, but you are missing out on some mean weapons ... Blood Calls to Blood is huge ... and making things harder than they should be. So, understand that is IS a challenge and accept the fact that it will be difficult.

If you don't get the Qi spells, you will definitely want to get chromed up. (And hand razors also qualify as "unarmed" combat.)

[Euphytose]

By unarmed I meant using the actual unarmed skill tree, which apparently is worthless. You either use qi, or you use the cyberweapons, both of those totally ignore the unarmed skills.

Again, I understand that some builds are better than others, in this game the rifles just seem to trump everything else. Reached the parking lot and with that 3 armor piercing sniper it's just ridiculous, I just use drugs here and there, buff myself with haste, and I kill one guy every round.

But the difference is huge here, it went from "close to impossible" to "cakewalk". For example, after having tested the rifles, I don't see any reason to use the other firearms. With 8-10 points in the rifles spec, even if the guy is right next to you, the accuracy is high enough that you can full auto and expect very decent results, or outright kill him. I guess you don't have AoE, but you have grenades for that.

[Zadok]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

hand razors also qualify as "unarmed" combat.

Nope. Neither a razor's crits nor special attacks profit from the Unarmed skill.
Razors are really good though. You likely want Cyber Affinity anyway to get +2 essence, so you simply skip on an extra weapon skill but still have one in CA.

Originally posted by Euphytose:

By unarmed I meant using the actual unarmed skill tree, which apparently is worthless.

The Unarmed specials are not half bad. I don't think it is a worthless skill at all.

Rifles are really strong early, due to the Full Autos. Snipers are certainly not a good standard to settle for - a specialist's weapon. Later on Full Autos are still Full Autos: They do not improve. They never crit, so the Rifle skill above 3 is kind of pointless. There is no armor penetration on Assault Rifles and their special attacks. Against high armor, which is commonplace later on, Assault Rifles lose their punch. They are still fine but no longer the super-weapon. Snipers on the other hand are too specific. It's bad if you have to rely on sniping at close range to get through armor. Neither Rifles are clearly better than the other weapons later on. They are just very cheap in Karma: Rifles 3 and that's it. Superpower in early- / mid- game. Oh and you have no grenades. Grenades for 2 AP are way overpriced and trashy, Throwing Weapons does not go well with Rifles.

Unarmed on the other hand (like all melee styles really) scales indefinitely. It is rather strong in the end if you do it right. Can be combined with Throwing Weapons. Of course you already have melee AoE before anybody else does if you go Unarmed.