vanilla vs modded

[Mrguy321]

vanilla

[Akyer :3]

Modded

Cant make my Lamborghini without one

[Uncle Fester]

Vanilla.

modding takes the skill and cleverness aspect from building, if you can mod a piece to work as you want, why would you build a complex mechanism with the vanilla pieces?

[Akyer :3]

"Take skill and cleverness [out of] building"

you're saying that

Gipsy Danger from Pacific Rim, Thomas the B-2 Spirit Bomber, Onicopters (flapping aircrafts), Mechanical walkers, Working Mechanical Swashplates, 400 km/h wheelpower only car (no additional propulsion like Flying Spirals, Rockets, or water cannons), Chinese-Invented Alternative RTC without the use of Pistons (called Toring, it uses wheels and cogs), Seemingly invincible offroaders, F1 Concept car made by Zep, C4T weaponized offroader by Neutex, guided homing missile, B-29 Nuclear bombers, Functional Aircraft Carriers without level editing, Vector Entanglement Stablization, Auto-stabilizing turret tanks, Abram M1 tanks, and Lamborghinis

are all

made by a clueless builders

who has no skill in building whatsoever at all?

[amyy]

modded, (stuff like easy scale and nobounds, that is)
vanilla is great, but modded expands your horizons, if you will.

[Flablo]

I like both, it depends on the the defined purpose of the creation.
Either way, the limits are within the creator (and in some cases, the bounding box).

[✠ abdo]

not fair and mods not fair...

[Akyer :3]

Originally posted by abdo:

not fair and mods not fair...

why is it not fair when everyone can download one themselves?

[Loshirai]

Vanilla is like building with hand tools, Modded is like building with both hand tools and power tools. Both takes skill to make something but modded lets you make more complex, compact and realistic machines with more efficiency compared to vanilla.

[Grey Wolf Jack]

If you have to edit a game's internal files to build something of value in a game that's entirely about building, then I don't think you're playing the game right. Modding combat vehicles in Besiege with the intention of using them in multiverse PvP is much closer to hacking than modding considering the OP creations modders can make.

Not enough room for rockets? Shrink the rockets and add more!
Rockets won't detonate on impact? Glue tiny bombs onto the front of them!
Rockets not destructive enough? Edit the bomb's file to make the explosion deadlier!
Cannon don't shoot far enough? Edit the power to make them shoot further!
Want more cannons to fire at once? Scale and stretch them until you can cram a bunch of them together until you get something that resembles a gatling gun or multi-barreled turret!
Want to blow enemy flyers out of the sky from any distance with unlimited ammo without even using an unlimited ammo cheat? Add a super powered water cannon to your machine and enjoy the power trip of being undefeatable!

Playing with OP modded creations gets boring fast, it reminds me a lot of when I used to wind up in hacked or "modded" Call of Duty: Ghosts servers and the host would just aimbot and make himself invisible and-or invincible just for kicks. Yeah, all he did was edit some files too, just like all these so called "modders" do in Besiege. Besiege was never meant to be an online game, that's why modding was even allowed in the first place as it was just for fun and couldn't effect anybody else back then.

Sure you can copy a modded vehicle to fight fire with fire, but the fun of besiege PvP is testing your own designs against other people's designs to see who is a more effective Besiegineer. If I wanted to PvP with pre-made anime-styled mechs I'd go play something else.. this game is about building effective seige engines, not ferraris, transformers/world of tanks/thomas the tank engine replicas.

[Akyer :3]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

this game is about building effective seige engines, not ferraris, transformers/world of tanks/thomas the tank engine replicas.

One of the factor during 2015 peak is that people create awesome things from mods like the Gipsy Danger from the Pacific Rim.

Even the developer themselves are hooked into the community just because we makes awesome things with mods.
Though, in case of a bug, they preferred vanilla so that mods doesnt really affect the bug.

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

but the fun of besiege PvP is testing your own designs against other people's designs to see who is a more effective Besiegineer.

The thing is that when us modders who have over a thousand hours of Besiege suddenly became vanilla, they will still overpower other vanilla creations in some way, even if it is completely vanilla
hence because Mods allows us to understan how the game actually works and function. Understanding that will make your creation more adapted to that "system" and thus makes the vanilla creation much overpowering.
But we chose not to be vanilla simply because it's boring and bad to have a limitation from building a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

Playing with OP modded creations gets boring fast

Explain why do I have over 1000+ hours of Besiege

Without mod, I would never be hooked into the game simply because in Vanilla, you cant build a lamborghini as pretty as mine. :c

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

Playing with OP modded creations gets boring fast, it reminds me a lot of when I used to wind up in hacked or "modded" Call of Duty: Ghosts servers and the host would just aimbot and make himself invisible and-or invincible just for kicks. Yeah, all he did was edit some files too, just like all these so called "modders" do in Besiege. Besiege was never meant to be an online game, that's why modding was even allowed in the first place as it was just for fun and couldn't effect anybody else back then.

Besiege was never meant to be an online game because the developer did not thought the community would become this big and they did not really expect anyone willing to mod the files of the game.

When you join a Besiege game, I do not recall having anyone load up the creation that just trolls and continously use a nuke to destroy the entire map. Plus, the host at anytime can wish to kick the player using command console in the game.
If the host is trolling, you can simply leave the game or tell the host to stop and it isnt fun.

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

If you have to edit a game's internal files to build something of value in a game that's entirely about building, then I don't think you're playing the game right.

When you play Besiege for over 1000 hours, dont you think building just vanilla is boring? And who says it's wrong to use mods? Everyone has an access to download mods whenever they wanted to. And everyone can download one from the workshop and use it too.

Originally posted by Grey Wolf Jack:

Modding combat vehicles in Besiege with the intention of using them in multiverse PvP is much closer to hacking than modding considering the OP creations modders can make.

Personally before when Multiplayer comes out, I want to mod the heck out of the game and beat everyone with my little invincible tank.

When Multiverse actually came out, I decided to never use it, simply because I know it would be too broken and it would ruin the fun.

Plus, Modders can make OP Vanilla creations too

[Grey Wolf Jack]

@Akyer :3


No, Vanilla never gets boring if you have any imagination at all. Despite what most modders commonly think, just with vanilla assets alone mathematically there are billions upon billions of block combinations and creations you can make. I am not even close to being bored with Vanilla.

If you and all the other modders are so good at making fantastic, invincible Vanilla machines, then make some and get them to the front page of the Workshop. The community would be far more impressed if you did it with Vanilla.

You don't deal with trolls often because I don't think you play with other people a lot, I'm going to take a wild guess and say you prefer racing other players more than PvP, but more than that you enjoy fishing for compliments with your Lambos even more than you enjoy racing, as your main interests seems to lie in painstakingly recreating sports cars over and over again. You are welcome to join the Besiege Combat League Steam group where we pit 100% Vanilla machines that fit in the bounding box against each other, there are also numerical restrictions on specific block types like bombs for example to make sure nobody trolls too hard. I get trolled by modded .bsg super-powered machines at least once whenever I have a get-together with any group of friends or strangers, so far it hasn't been too bad since I just ask them to go Vanilla and they almost always do, but very reluctantly. People who use lots of modded vehicles usually don't have many good Vanilla vehicles in their arsenal 9 1/2 times out of 10.

If a host trolls me, I troll him back using a secret technique that kicks him from his own server that I will not share with anyone haha, but I just do it once and leave. Most Hosts aren't aware of the console commands to kick players, Hopefully they add a more straight-forward system for that, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'd prefer we had filters to filter out OP .bsg edited creations so that an event doesn't get distrupted in the first place, I hate having to kick people. It's really not asking for much, not that I'm super angry or impatient or anything as I know the Multiverse is still a work in progress.

This game is already beautiful. The medieval-punk aesthetic is what gives the game it's charm and makes it unique. I find Lamborghinis and Ferraris to be extremely tacky, tasteless and destroy any immersion if you ever had any. To me, it just shows you keep creating things that you're too poor to afford in real life more than anything (Not saying you specifically are poor). I can't pit seige engines against each other in real life (yet) so that's why I come here.

For some reason you think modding the ♥♥♥♥♥ Danger from Pacific Rim is cool. You keep mentioning that and think it's so awesome. I personally think it's nerdy, lame, and weaboo-ish (Not saying you are these things). Why would someone take the time to painstakingly recreate something from such a cheap movie? Why do people copy mainstream media so much instead of building their own contraptions and mechs? There's too many imitaters and not enough innovators. All I see is remakes of Retro games, Transformers, Sports cars, Military vehicles, Mad Max vehicles, etc.

Then you get people modding Thomas the Tank Engine into everything and think they're being super original when that's such an old meme. I remember the Thomas the Tank engine mods in the Skyrim workshop from like 5 years ago when I used to mod Skyrim.




To each is own though. If all you want to do is mod pretty, or OP creations, you should be able to. All I want is a filter to restrict .bsg and block scale values when I'm hosting so the people who desire to play this game competitively Vanilla can effectively do so.

[Akyer :3]

This may be long but

Here, have a link to my Lamborghini.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1221780996

I spent a month on this creation, and this is my favorite aesthetic-looking car ever since it's production.

You may do admit it - it looks pretty good.
So do I


But still

When a modded creation is built for a month, about 30 days, dont you think mods can also provide quite a challenge if builders choose to do so?

When something is unachieveable in Vanilla, something that cannot be as good as a modded version, dont you think im actually enjoying this endless possibilities? Beside, how else did I got my 1000+ hours of Besiege?


I am also not a car fan, I am not a guy who mostly joins on Racing servers. I am currently getting hooked into conquering the skies and are currently making an Aircraft Carrier-based maps with a functional A.I. Anti-Air turrets.


I have something to prove my points. I have evidences. I have an objective reasons of why i stay modded. Your's are simply your own opinion and experiences.



Ruining the true aspect of the game? Opinion.
Builders being clueless and does not care about the vanilla limitation and thinks it's unfair? Opinion.
Vanilla provide challenge and thinks it's fun to stay liminited? Opinion.
Modded creation that once wrecked your vanilla weaklings? Experiences.

Mods providing unlimited access of building choices? Objective.
Mods can create a challenge depending on the build? Objective.
Mods can achieve things Vanilla cannot do? Objective.
Mods overpowering other vanilla creations in an unfair easy way? Objective.



But even so, I still cannot completely disagree with your standpoint.

Infact 2 years ago when I started Besiege, I thought Vanilla are so much better than Mods, and these four vanilla stand points said above are exactly the reason why I stay vanilla for a while.

It's only for a month before I realized im getting bored and things I want to do are simply unachieveable in Vanilla.

I have no skill? I have no imagination? I have no value of challenges? I am unfair?

Your opinion, not mine.


I have skill. I have imagination. I have face challenges with mods. I intentionally build things to be fair.
Infact due to such a difficult bodywork of my Lamborghini, it ended up with 350 blocks, fragile than most simple vanilla cars.



But honestly, even when noone says you cant download mods

Even if you're getting treated unfairly because of mods

Even if you like the limitation Vanilla provides




Mods can solve all of that issue.



Mods can let you be square-to-square with other modded creations

Mods makes you have no excuse of being treated badly.

Mods may break the vanilla limitation barrier, but even mods can provide an interesting challenge.

And when other modded creations are better than your modded creations, you have nothing to blame but to your own self and your skill.



Im not saying Vanilla are bad and should not exist. Infact, they are stable in terms of game physics. Although even the developer themselves say that they are amazed with modded creations, they still preferred Vanilla in case if there's a bug they need to troubleshoot.

But that's just one objective reason why vanilla is good to be stayed.

Something that I actually come up with, not you vanilla folks.


Once again, I cannot completely disagree with Vanilla standpoints.
Beside, it is your opinion, and your choice to decide which side to stay.

Nothing owns you but yourself.

[DosClay]

Originally posted by Akyer :3:

Mods providing unlimited access of building choices? Objective.
Mods can create a challenge depending on the build? Objective.
Mods can achieve things Vanilla cannot do? Objective.
Mods overpowering other vanilla creations in an unfair easy way? Objective.

How about this:
You like how mods provide unlimited access of building choices. Opinion. Some do not.
You like how mods can create a challenge depending on the build. Opinion. Some do not. (besides, vanilla creates challenges too, even more so because you can't just make everything defy the in-game physics so they work to your liking)
You like how mods can achieve things Vanilla cannot do. Opinion. Some do not
You like how mods can overpower other vanilla creations in an unfair easy way. Opinion. Some do not.

See how this works? Those are just your preferences. Preferences are opinions. Preferences are not objective. You disguised your preferences as the facts towards which you were expressing your preferences, but ultimately you were just saying "I like this stuff".

[Grey Wolf Jack]

@Akyer :3

"Mods can let you be square-to-square with other modded creations

Mods makes you have no excuse of being treated badly."

"Modded creation that once wrecked your vanilla weaklings? Experiences."

Modded 100x power water cannons that can rip apart any and all machines - Vanilla or not - from any distance with unlimited ammunition without regard to how well they're built is a disgusting, game-breaking, and gross abuse of modding. It would be considered hacking if this was seen in any other game except this one. Being able to restrict such creations designed specifically to be overpowered and unfair is absolutely necessary for any type of competition to be held in this game. Without an ability to restrict game-abusing creations, nothing you do in the multiverse can be completely enjoyed or taken seriously. We cannot rely on trusting people to do the right thing forever, we need a built-in system to help handle this.

If you're suggesting I should lower myself to their level and fight cheats with cheats then I think you've forgotten what Besiege is really meant to be about in your 2k+ hours. I find such a notion to not just be appalling, but also promotioning of an attitude geared towards an acceptance of gross negligents, ignorance, bias, and unprincipled behaviour.



Your lamborghini looks like a lamborghini - I personally see no beauty in that as I find innovation, practicality and utility to be the 3 most beautiful aspects of any creation. It's well-made for a Lamborghini because it looks like one I guess, but you might as well have spent a month making a fold-out sofa bed or a toaster in my eyes. Not to mention not everybody likes Lamborghinis or even cars in general. To me, since I was a little kid I've found cars to be inefficient, pollutive, and wasteful from an engineering and environmental standpoint, and no matter how red and shiny people make them, I still to this day feel no love towards them whatsoever. Car culture is insanity to me, yet so many of my friends love cars, but if they saw them the way I do then they probably would stop.

[Welp]

I suggest the game should recognise when mods are being used and if you host a multiverse battle, you can disable/ enable usage of modded vehicles. This would prevent abuse and dominance of OP modded vehicles that replace vanilla creations.