Impressions of Chapter 5

[Shepherdmoon]

I've only been playing a a couple hours or so. There's been a couple of relatively challenging puzzles, and some strange, intriguing elements. I'm most surprised, though, at how incedibly SAD it is. Although I'm thouroghly enjoying it, it's leaving me feeling a bit depressed.

[reboog711]

Best one so far; it almost captures the gameplay of old.

[Shepherdmoon]

Yes, I agree with that. It is also very creatively written--and includes references to the original games, which I recently strated to replay so they're fresh in my mind. (For instance, the fairies... I was wondering why they weren't in the new games, being such a big part of the old).

[rognik]

It is sad, but part of the story is finally accepting saying goodbye to Graham forever once this chapter is over (except for maybe the epilogue). The good news is that the big bad also gets defeated as well. It's a bittersweet ending, and one that sort of fits how they had been setting up the series.

[BlazeRomulus]

i've been crying crocodile tears near the end. I'm curious how the epilogue will be, Gwendolyn's adventures? :)

[daventry]

Wheres Cassima

[Mandrake42]

This has been building up to be a sad finale for some time though. It's been increasingly obvious as the episodes go on that the elderly King Graham's health is failing.

[rognik]

Originally posted by Blaze:

i've been crying crocodile tears near the end. I'm curious how the epilogue will be, Gwendolyn's adventures? :)

...I hope not. Crocodile tears means they're fake tears, so you're crying to make other people feel sorry for you.

Originally posted by daventry:

Wheres Cassima

Probably back in the Green Isles, ruling the kingdom while Alexander and Gwendolyn are with Graham.

[BlazeRomulus]

Originally posted by rognik:

Originally posted by Blaze:

i've been crying crocodile tears near the end. I'm curious how the epilogue will be, Gwendolyn's adventures? :)

...I hope not. Crocodile tears means they're fake tears, so you're crying to make other people feel sorry for you.

hmm, had no idea about that one, always seen crocodiles as nice. lol.

[Shepherdmoon]

Originally posted by Mandrake42:

This has been building up to be a sad finale for some time though. It's been increasingly obvious as the episodes go on that the elderly King Graham's health is failing.

That aspect of it certainly isn't a surprise, and by itself isn't necessarily all that sad. It's how he's dealing with it that's sad to me--his personal struggle in coming to terms with the fact that his adventures are coming to an end: the strongest part to his fear of death. It is interesting, as @rognik pointed out, that this mirrors our own desire to see the King's Quest games continue, and our reluctance to let King Graham go. Not to mention the parallels with real life and dealing with our own mortality, as well as the death of our loved ones. It's like this chapter is one giant therapy session for all of us, lol.

[ChallAcc]

Seriously?!? I hated this chapter! I've just seen so many bad examples of poor game design. I'm amazed to see so many people happy!

What happened to the scene where Graham is confronted by the dragon again, whilst wearing his hat?

What was the point of the item we got in chapter 4 that transferred over to chapter 5?

Why was the entire kingdom completely empty? It didn't seem like a glorious kingdom. I thought it suggested Graham did an awful job, and everything just deteriorated.

Why the secrecy on Manny's appearance? Having him talk to people from off screen, only to reveal him to look exactly how he looked at the end of chapter 4?

Why did Mannak (whatever his name was) have a massive scratch down his face? Did the tiny cat do that to him? Despite the fact that Manny is only alive because of Mannak's magic?

I honestly thought the big twist was going to be that Achaka from the first game was Mannak, and that he wasn't killed by the dragon, but injurred, losing his memory and being 'saved' by the goblins.

That would have made for a more interesting game, with the 2 characters finally remembering, and fighting Manny together (Who, I feel I should add, didn't do anything bad in chapter 1. He passed every test fine. If you lose against him, the guards wreck the table until you win. In my eyes, he's always been the rightful ruler. One who simply wanted to prove to the world that racism against Goblins was uncalled for, and that it was possible for them to be as, or even more intelligent than humans).

Instead, we got more puzzles that were beyond easy. Random fetch quests, requiring we travel from one end of the map to the other, then back again. An old man who waddled when he walked, but could run indefintely. Paused for a good few seconds when he fell from a small height, however gracefully jumped between 2 rocks when down the well. Then got slammed around by Manny for a couple minutes, and shook it off with ease. He's meant to be 77, right?

So, the whole game suggests that the King is dying of old age... but then it turns out that no... he actually dies (maybe) from catching a potion... that was going to be poured onto a portal (?) that lead to the castle?

Awful story telling, and as I said, poor game design.

[Mandrake42]

Originally posted by AnD4D:

Seriously?!? I hated this chapter! I've just seen so many bad examples of poor game design. I'm amazed to see so many people happy!

What happened to the scene where Graham is confronted by the dragon again, whilst wearing his hat?

What was the point of the item we got in chapter 4 that transferred over to chapter 5?

Why was the entire kingdom completely empty? It didn't seem like a glorious kingdom. I thought it suggested Graham did an awful job, and everything just deteriorated.

Why the secrecy on Manny's appearance? Having him talk to people from off screen, only to reveal him to look exactly how he looked at the end of chapter 4?

Why did Mannak (whatever his name was) have a massive scratch down his face? Did the tiny cat do that to him? Despite the fact that Manny is only alive because of Mannak's magic?

I honestly thought the big twist was going to be that Achaka from the first game was Mannak, and that he wasn't killed by the dragon, but injurred, losing his memory and being 'saved' by the goblins.

That would have made for a more interesting game, with the 2 characters finally remembering, and fighting Manny together (Who, I feel I should add, didn't do anything bad in chapter 1. He passed every test fine. If you lose against him, the guards wreck the table until you win. In my eyes, he's always been the rightful ruler. One who simply wanted to prove to the world that racism against Goblins was uncalled for, and that it was possible for them to be as, or even more intelligent than humans).

Instead, we got more puzzles that were beyond easy. Random fetch quests, requiring we travel from one end of the map to the other, then back again. An old man who waddled when he walked, but could run indefintely. Paused for a good few seconds when he fell from a small height, however gracefully jumped between 2 rocks when down the well. Then got slammed around by Manny for a couple minutes, and shook it off with ease. He's meant to be 77, right?

So, the whole game suggests that the King is dying of old age... but then it turns out that no... he actually dies (maybe) from catching a potion... that was going to be poured onto a portal (?) that lead to the castle?

Awful story telling, and as I said, poor game design.

The entire kingdom is empty to represent Graham's failing memory. He is an increasingly unreliable narrator as age takes it's toll and he nears death. This is why some things change over the course of the story as well and why some parts are blank and white, his memory is going. His grandaughter even corrects him at times as he tells parts of the story wrong, becoming increasingly horrified at just how bad he is getting.

With Manny, the joke was that they wanted to conceal that he was still a cat all these years later. Also, when he transforms, it's the first time we have seen him as Mannanan, the villian from Kings Quest 3. These are references for fans of the original series.

Mordack got the scars on his face during the events of Kings Quest V, where he is the villian. Another reference for fans of the original series.

With the potion and catching it, who says that is what really happened? His grandaughter is making the story up on the fly as Graham can't remember

Also, you only have Manny's word that he was going to be some great king. His actions indicate otherwise. He treats Mordack basically as a slave and in fact, treats his own people much the same way. I never got any indication that he would be a fantastic king. Also, why is he the rightful king? All through the tests in the first chapter he cheats his butt off. Graham eventually bests him.........while Manny is trying to poison him? How do you end up with him as the good guy?

[ChallAcc]

Originally posted by Mandrake42:

The entire kingdom is empty to represent Graham's failing memory. He is an increasingly unreliable narrator as age takes it's toll and he nears death. This is why some things change over the course of the story as well and why some parts are blank and white, his memory is going. His grandaughter even corrects him at times as he tells parts of the story wrong, becoming increasingly horrified at just how bad he is getting.

With Manny, the joke was that they wanted to conceal that he was still a cat all these years later. Also, when he transforms, it's the first time we have seen him as Mannanan, the villian from Kings Quest 3. These are references for fans of the original series.

Mordack got the scars on his face during the events of Kings Quest V, where he is the villian. Another reference for fans of the original series.

With the potion and catching it, who says that is what really happened? His grandaughter is making the story up on the fly as Graham can't remember

Sorry, but as far as I can tell everything you've said is just a guess. Also, didn't we see Mannanan in Chapter 4? So seeing him turn again, isn't really the first time.

Did Manny scratch Mordack in KQ5? After all, he says something like "Remember what happened last time you argued with me!" and then he touched his face, suggesting it was him as the cat that scratched him.

Finally, regarding the Kindom being empty. Nothing suggests that it's because of Graham's memory. In fact, as Graham is the youngest character out of all of the others, and he's 77, it more lends to the suggestion that he outlived everyone.

Finally, I want to acknowledge that I ended up with a stupid golden arrow at the end of the game, simply because in chapter 4 it was the first place I walked in to, because it was closest. Nothing suggested I only had 1 option.

Throughout the whole game I had been playing through as wits, with the old couple, so suddenly having Graham ignore my relationship with them, whilst intentionally ignoring the Blacksmith, then having a picture of her in the room was a bizzare choice.

Regarding the girl telling the end of the story; seeing as Graham is known for his stories, and they're documented and turned into tapestries, I simply assumed she already knew it, and was trying to take on the mantle of story teller, rather than making it up on the spot.

Also, what's with the ending?

The Devs said that the Epilogue isn't needed for the story. Yet at the end, the girl is really sad that Graham is gone, but suddenly looks in the mirror, grins, grabs the hat and runs off.

Imagine if you hadn't bought the optional Epilogue, only said to be supplied if you bought the season pass. What an ending that would have been!

[Mandrake42]

He was 77 when the events he is describing to his grandaughter happened. He is 86 at the time he is decribing them. It isn't guesswork that his memory is failing. His grandaughter mentions it multiple times as he is recounting the tale. ALL of the episodes have been the old king remembering. In this particular episode his memory is really failing. Why did you think there were blank patches in the map? Why did he enter some locations and take several times to remember what was there (First example being remembering a bell at the bridge when it was a horn, then forgetting altogether that the bridge was actually a troll and not a talking bridge) What did you think his grandaughter was worried about, why did you think she was correcting him? (In fact, you can hear the worry and desperation in her voice when he completely forgets who Olfie was)

While some events are documented in the tapestries, you will notice the events King Graham recounts in this episode are not among them. In fact when Graham tells her to finish the story, she says she doesn't know how it ends.

[ChallAcc]

Originally posted by Mandrake42:

He was 77 when the events he is describing to his grandaughter happened. He is 86 at the time he is decribing them. It isn't guesswork that his memory is failing. His grandaughter mentions it multiple times as he is recounting the tale. ALL of the episodes have been the old king remembering. In this particular episode his memory is really failing. Why did you think there were blank patches in the map? Why did he enter some locations and take several times to remember what was there (First example being remembering a bell at the bridge when it was a horn, then forgetting altogether that the bridge was actually a troll and not a talking bridge) What did you think his grandaughter was worried about, why did you think she was correcting him? (In fact, you can hear the worry and desperation in her voice when he completely forgets who Olfie was)

While some events are documented in the tapestries, you will notice the events King Graham recounts in this episode are not among them. In fact when Graham tells her to finish the story, she says she doesn't know how it ends.

I never questioned the fact that his memory is failing. I stated that the game never emphasised that the reason there were no PEOPLE anywhere was due to his failing memory.

Some games do this using blank personas, which this game could have done to suggest a prosperous town. Instead, they glossed over this and made it look abandoned.

Sorry that you took the time to remind me of something I was fully aware of, and sorry that you misunderstood my point. Genuinely.

[Mandrake42]

Look, if it's not his memory that has the world empty because he is misremembering it, how else do you explain it? To me it was the obvious explanation in the same way that he misremembered what was in locations and had big blank patches in the map. Also why there is inexplicably fire everywhere. The whole thing is faulty memory.