Major flaw: The more I level the weaker I feel

[Demarki]

This game's monster scaling feels way off. I am having a MUCH harder time on areas I was able to easily clear 20 levels ago.
Even though my HP went up and I am using better Destiny cards and Demon Powers I feel much weaker in general. My damage feels low and I die very easily, sometimes get one-shot by Champions even without any Hexes.
This is a major flaw with this game, you should NOT be weaker against levels and mobs you easily killed before just because of how monster scaling.
Not happy with my character progress at all, I was looking forward to reach level 50 and be able to farm fast and start completing Elite challenges, instead I had to replay the Spider boss level 12 TIMES without Hexes in order to kill her once, when I remember easily farming her 20 levels ago?
Seriously guys, this is something that ruins a promising action RPG.

[Venuminostrates]

I hear this a lot. One of my friends was saying something similar. Here's the game design idea quoted from one of the developers:

Originally posted by StGaby:

Mobs don't level up in the traditional sense.
A Frostcrawler (the nasty ranged blue spiders) is always the same mob - same health, damage, everything. If you get better gear you will naturally kill them faster.

However, to keep all areas interesting, mobs get additional modifiers.
At some point you will start meeting Deadly Frostcrawlers. Deadly mobs have more damage and a bit more health.
Later on you will meet Crippling Frostcrawlers. Crippling monsters do even more damage and cripple (slow down) your character on hit.

Each monster has it's own progression that is true to its core idea - not all monsters become crippling. Fort simplicity monsters always have only one modifier (or none).

The idea is that you can re-play any area of the game after you gain several levels and it will still be challenging and interesting. In fact it will be challenging in a different way than the previous time you played.

Try going back to The Royal Gardens after you reach level 10. How does it play?

Personally I like this approach. The game can be beaten casually in a few hours with a character in their 20s. But the monsters scaling with levels allows more depth and rewards the players that keep playing with interesting things to do.

I say enjoy the difficulty while it lasts. As you get better at fine tuning builds and as you get the best gear combinations, you will eventually get to a point where everything in this game feels way too easy. Even 500+ tier fracture or 40+ bottomless pit. My friend who was saying something similar to what you are saying was still using the same type of build he had in his 20s with only slightly better gear / destiny cards. Once he changed his build up, he was clearing things easy again XD

[xylt]

In every aRPG the higher you get the more choice options (be it items, passives, etc.) which you could take are there to fill the increasing number of choices (item slots, skill points, etc. ; in VV also destiny slots/ points) you have to make which means a higher number of possible builds (that are easy to play)
-> also a higher number of builds that're harder to play.

Then many players will inevitably make the choices that lead them to a bad build and deduce that not their build is too weak but the monsters are too strong.

If you want another game that has about the same perceived 'problem' take a look at Path of Exile and how easy it can be to make a bad build and at the same time how some players keep on making the most diverse builds that destroy the highest-level content with ease.
And that game has many more things you CAN do wrong with your build compared to VV (be it by spreading out what damage is over different types, what skills are over item slots, what your defence would be over different health/defence types, etc.).


Victor Vran has the positiv (or for some negativ) side effect - that every souls-like has aswell- that depending on your personal skill-level - when it comes to actually using builds to their best - the number of builds you'll perceive as "good" will be increased (or decreased respectively).


I know from first hand experience that it's possible to 1-2 shot ANY enemy in the game. Damage numbers of many thousands up to a million are a thing.

[Venuminostrates]

Originally posted by xylt:

Damage numbers of many thousands up to a million are a thing.

This is true. I have a screenshot on my profile of one of my builds doing over 3 million damage with one attack. Nothing in the game even remotely has that many hit points.

Like I said, enjoy the difficulty while it lasts. Treat it as a puzzle in which the solution can be found in your build. Eventually you will make a build that blows away anything and everything.

[Demarki]

I used to go for a pistol build(the one with 50% ability reduction) and some crit chance/damage cards, now I am using the lightsabers with the sword destiny card that heals + devil card and its going a bit better, but still no where near 1-2 shooting stuff.

As for outfit, I was using the 10% crit one and I was getting a ton of overdrive with it, people recommended using the extra 2000 one with armor but less overdrive gain, but I dont like it that much, feels that it takes forever for my overdrive to go up.

[Arlyeon [Crit Hit]]

If you upgrade the Armour one, it will only have a 10% overdrive reduction, and give well over 100 armour. Currently mine gives ...120? (Which pushes my defense to 542 for my build when I'm being a life stealing mook and laze my way through fights.

[Bloonis]

Originally posted by Demarki:

This game's monster scaling feels way off. I am having a MUCH harder time on areas I was able to easily clear 20 levels ago.
Even though my HP went up and I am using better Destiny cards and Demon Powers I feel much weaker in general. My damage feels low and I die very easily, sometimes get one-shot by Champions even without any Hexes.
This is a major flaw with this game, you should NOT be weaker against levels and mobs you easily killed before just because of how monster scaling.
Not happy with my character progress at all, I was looking forward to reach level 50 and be able to farm fast and start completing Elite challenges, instead I had to replay the Spider boss level 12 TIMES without Hexes in order to kill her once, when I remember easily farming her 20 levels ago?
Seriously guys, this is something that ruins a promising action RPG.

The answer to all your game problems is Pistol Vigilante. Trust me xD

[Venuminostrates]

This post is actually a year old. Demarki has played and finished the game lol

[Bloonis]

Originally posted by Venuminostrates:

This post is actually a year old. Demarki has played and finished the game lol

Well it seems I am so hyped about this vigilante build that I advertise it wherever I can without even paying attention to the dates lol. Venum what have you done to me! haha

[Venuminostrates]

rofl!! <3

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Venuminostrates:

This post is actually a year old. Demarki has played and finished the game lol

The point of the thread title/OP is still 100% every bit as valid as it was at the time when he made it though.

I too have reached the same conclusion as the OP, independently of him, and posted my own thread explaining such on this board, and I'd never even seen this thread before today.

So that bespeaks a major balancing problem with this game that has never been fixed in a patch, even though it still needs to be.

[Venuminostrates]

Originally posted by Dragon:

Originally posted by Venuminostrates:

This post is actually a year old. Demarki has played and finished the game lol

The point of the thread title/OP is still 100% every bit as valid as it was at the time when he made it though.

I too have reached the same conclusion as the OP, independently of him, and posted my own thread explaining such on this board, and I'd never even seen this thread before today.

So that bespeaks a major balancing problem with this game that has never been fixed in a patch, even though it still needs to be.

Fair enough. I'll wade into this debate again then.

Specifically, I have to disagree with you. This is not something that needs to be "fixed" in a patch. It goes against your expectations, but that doesn't make it "wrong." It was a purposeful design choice. You don't patch out survival mechanics in Rust just because you find it difficult. It was put there on purpose by the developers.

Besides, I actually find it to be enjoyable. I get tired of becoming level 99 in other games, and going back to the beginning areas and finding literally no challenge with anything there. It increases replay value if you can still challenge yourself in those areas.

That said, I do think that the developers could be clearer with it. Most games out there work in the traditional way, so I can see how surprising it would be when one first encounters this. They should indeed say something to the following effect somewhere early in the game, and repeat it often (at the level up screen maybe?): "Monsters learn new tricks and get tougher at certain points in the game. Make sure you adjust your weapon, outfits, and destiny cards often as you level up. Experiment to find the best build!"

Besides all this, you actually DO GET STRONGER as you level in comparison to the monsters around you. You get access to more HP, more destiny cards, and more variety of gear, and the ability to transmute gear/cards. At level 50+, you can make builds that are way more destructive and more powerful than anything you can do at level 1.

If you keep up with your maintenance for this game (increasing wicked/divine effects, leveling your weapon to your current level via transmutation, scaling up your outfit etc), then you will continually outpace the game. If you're doing this and you're still having trouble, then you should start experimenting on the training dummies and come up with a new, more powerful build.

Victor Vran has a robust build system. It is as much apart of this game as fighting monsters. The only playstyle that doesn't work well is one where you use the same low level build and gear for the entire game. If you don't want to interact with the build system, then play on casual difficulty. You can focus on purely killing monsters and you won't need to interact with the transmutation station (the gear you pick up will be fine).

Again, I do think the developers could have been clearer in this respect. Since so many gamers have the expectation of leveling past difficulty, it would be nice for the developers to flag the fact that the game will level up with them, and that they can't ignore the build mechanics.