No more manual trading, no more hourly ticks

[Henchman Dave]

This update blows chunks. Not only can I no longer personally allocate the trade power I want into any good, I also can no longer pick which market to import that specific item from. Every import now draws from EVERY MARKET I HAVE SELECTED, gone are the days where I could import tools from edinburgh to dublin and import fine cloth from brugge to dublin, now the game automatically decides from a list of selected markets where I am allowed to get those items, and the game will simply save me from making mistakes, or, i don't know, 'save' me from purposefully buying at a slight loss from a friendly market in multiplayer. Now I am forced to buy BOTH tools AND fine cloth from BOTH brugge AND edinburgh, and the game automatically calculates it. I DON'T WANT THIS GAME BEING PLAYED FOR ME, MAN.

and getting rid of hourly ticks is like dropping iron tools for flint knapping. I love when battles take me entire months to win, rather than 1-2 days!

EDIT: I pity the PDX devs, it makes me feel bad that they're trying to build their game as much off of player feedback as possible, but there are times here and there where they shouldn't be making such sweeping changes. The original vision was solid, but needed polish. The current product feels like its straying away from that original vision. The game is getting weirder every major patch.

[mathalamus]

and.......the actual game changing issue is....?

[Nats]

They just do not have any focus or plan that much is obvious. They are just fast reacting to community complaints. Trying different things but they obviously do not know what to try. Its quite sad to see Paradox like this. They used to be quite good at making games when they started off. I think its just money money money now and the suits are in control.

This will probably be the last game I ever buy from them. After their game failures of Vic 3 and I:Rome, and their DLC swarm with HoI4, CK2, CK3 and EU4, I just do not see myself buying anything further.

I hope they get this game sorted because I cannot afford to waste money on games. BUT I am not at all interested in throwing good money after bad, buying dlc to make it playable.

It either will be playable in a year and I will play it, or it won't, I will drop it, and I will never get anything from them again.

[Medicles]

I mean, they obviously have some sort of plan because no one was asking for political influence or were complaining about legitimacy and stability being a resource. Its just a very weird plan.

[Nats]

Originally posted by Medicles:

I mean, they obviously have some sort of plan because no one was asking for political influence or were complaining about legitimacy and stability being a resource. Its just a very weird plan.

I hate the way they just change their game design after I have bought it. That is just not right. Don't get me started on that ..... it is just a crap philosophy they have now, and very arrogant of them to think they can do what they do, game after game.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by Nats:

I hate the way they just change their game design after I have bought it. That is just not right. Don't get me started on that ..... it is just a crap philosophy they have now, and very arrogant of them to think they can do what they do, game after game.

It is indeed the weirdest support of a game i have ever experienced. This tops even the disaster of Fatsharks support. Swedish developers. Weird folk. I fully believe that if Tinto had made EU5 an Early Access title, it wouldnt be so damn weird, but a "finished" product being changed so excessively is rather extreme.

[truehunter]

They also don't seem to follow the trends of how many players played which patch. Imo 1.1 and 1.3 were solid (I had tons of fun playing them for a couple hundred hours). All they needed was performance improvements and fixing bugs. Maybe change a few values like mercenary cost scaling, but in general the game was good.

I have no idea what this 1.4 game is trying to do. I don't know how I am supposed to play when nearly everything is limited by political influence points.

[Henchman Dave]

Originally posted by mathalamus:

and.......the actual game changing issue is....?

the game changing issue is that unless I buy exclusively from that market and nowhere else, I cannot specifically ask to buy scottish tools and dutch fine cloth, I have to buy both from each. The issue is the reduction of player agency and automation that doesn't allow players to make economic mistakes OR play at a deliberate loss on the behalf of another player, something we used to be able to do in 1.3.

battle tick rates changing is self explanatory, are you trolling? Battle calculations take a ton of ticks to clear, if it takes you 35 ticks to win a big battle on hourly ticks, that's like 3 days. That's over a month on daily ticks, and at that point the game plays like EUIV where the enemy army is given a large amount of time to endlessly reinforce with their other armies, and your ability to maneuver and pick off divided enemies with a smaller army is horribly diminished. Hourly ticks were fine how they were.

[mathalamus]

then it implies you were definitely not supposed to manually manage the market like that. its too open to exploits, and im glad they fixed that.

and, im not trolling. the return to just daily ticks just means combat works the same it has in the previous four games, which, quite frankly, was rather successful, and changing *that* was seen as a failure. you cant really have hourly ticks in a game spanning 500 years and still expect good pacing.

[Noname]

Originally posted by mathalamus:

then it implies you were definitely not supposed to manually manage the market like that. its too open to exploits, and im glad they fixed that.

and, im not trolling. the return to just daily ticks just means combat works the same it has in the previous four games, which, quite frankly, was rather successful, and changing *that* was seen as a failure. you cant really have hourly ticks in a game spanning 500 years and still expect good pacing.

And that is why this game is losing more and more players. You call it an exploit, people were using it to have fun playing with their friends in MP games. I don't care about trade too much because I always ended with it set to auto. It's tedious for me to waste time looking for the best deals. But the overall feeling is that Paradox wants their player to suffer and not have fun with this game.

Daily ticks? I bought this game because it promised something fresh and different from previous titles. And it looks like people want EU4 in a new package. Resignation from hourly ticks will make combat unbalanced, and knowing how Paradox works, they will need 2-3 patches to balance this out in this new setting. All for minimal performance gain and to appease a small group of players that still are writing on their forums wanting to suffer even more. Ignoring everyone else. If nothing changes, this game will end in the same situation as Imperator. Too small player base to fund further development and then almost instant stop of it by Paradox.

I hope that it doesn't happen, because I invested money in this game, and I want to have fun with it, but you need numbers to pay for more content, and for now this game is lacking those numbers.

[Henchman Dave]

What part of that is exploitative? As it stands, the game protects you automatically from trading at a loss, and prevents you from exercising control over where specific goods come from unless you are only trading to one market. THAT sounds exploitative. That's like having AI that automatically seizes control of your army whenever it gets too close to a larger force and runs away. It's an immersion-breaking, unrealistic safety net that cannot be disabled and robs the player of full control of their own nation. I don't want a GSG that is played on my behalf.

And it's already been proven that hourly ticks barely account for how much faster the game runs, by paradox's own words it's only 10-15% of the issue. Combat is miserable now. I respectfully disagree that combat in previous titles was 'successful', because battles should not take months to win with a massive window for endless army reinforcement, that is miserable and reduces the game to stack-spamming. The way combat used to be, the game was arguably on track to have something akin to guerilla warfare, where an army with high enough movement speed could pick off divided units, but now there is always a chance to reinforce.

[mathalamus]

Originally posted by Henchman Dave:

What part of that is exploitative? As it stands, the game protects you automatically from trading at a loss, and prevents you from exercising control over where specific goods come from unless you are only trading to one market. THAT sounds exploitative. That's like having AI that automatically seizes control of your army whenever it gets too close to a larger force and runs away. It's an immersion-breaking, unrealistic safety net that cannot be disabled and robs the player of full control of their own nation. I don't want a GSG that is played on my behalf.

then dont update the game. pretty simple. as it stands, the fact that they changed it, kiiiinda indicates you were not supposed to do that in the first place.

And it's already been proven that hourly ticks barely account for how much faster the game runs, by paradox's own words it's only 10-15% of the issue. Combat is miserable now. I respectfully disagree that combat in previous titles was 'successful', because battles should not take months to win with a massive window for endless army reinforcement, that is miserable and reduces the game to stack-spamming. The way combat used to be, the game was arguably on track to have something akin to guerilla warfare, where an army with high enough movement speed could pick off divided units, but now there is always a chance to reinforce.

10 to 15 percent is a substantial reduction of time, in exchange for making combat a lot more familar to veterans of the series. quiite frankly, theres no downside.

[xcairnsx5]

Originally posted by Henchman Dave:

This update blows chunks. Not only can I no longer personally allocate the trade power I want into any good, I also can no longer pick which market to import that specific item from. Every import now draws from EVERY MARKET I HAVE SELECTED, gone are the days where I could import tools from edinburgh to dublin and import fine cloth from brugge to dublin, now the game automatically decides from a list of selected markets where I am allowed to get those items, and the game will simply save me from making mistakes, or, i don't know, 'save' me from purposefully buying at a slight loss from a friendly market in multiplayer. Now I am forced to buy BOTH tools AND fine cloth from BOTH brugge AND edinburgh, and the game automatically calculates it. I DON'T WANT THIS GAME BEING PLAYED FOR ME, MAN.

and getting rid of hourly ticks is like dropping iron tools for flint knapping. I love when battles take me entire months to win, rather than 1-2 days!

EDIT: I pity the PDX devs, it makes me feel bad that they're trying to build their game as much off of player feedback as possible, but there are times here and there where they shouldn't be making such sweeping changes. The original vision was solid, but needed polish. The current product feels like its straying away from that original vision. The game is getting weirder every major patch.

What are you talking about? 1.4 has the same manual trades like before with the option to add Auto trade. You can literally trade with any market you want and choose individual trades too. You can even mix the auto trades with your specialised trades that you pick (like sell all your cloth to 1 single market of your choice) then have the auto trade use the rest of your unused trade if you want or turn auto trade off. It's 1000% better now.
As for the battle speed, they said they're slowing battle speed down on 1.4 to match the day ticks.

[Henchman Dave]

Originally posted by xcairnsx5:

Originally posted by Henchman Dave:

This update blows chunks. Not only can I no longer personally allocate the trade power I want into any good, I also can no longer pick which market to import that specific item from. Every import now draws from EVERY MARKET I HAVE SELECTED, gone are the days where I could import tools from edinburgh to dublin and import fine cloth from brugge to dublin, now the game automatically decides from a list of selected markets where I am allowed to get those items, and the game will simply save me from making mistakes, or, i don't know, 'save' me from purposefully buying at a slight loss from a friendly market in multiplayer. Now I am forced to buy BOTH tools AND fine cloth from BOTH brugge AND edinburgh, and the game automatically calculates it. I DON'T WANT THIS GAME BEING PLAYED FOR ME, MAN.

and getting rid of hourly ticks is like dropping iron tools for flint knapping. I love when battles take me entire months to win, rather than 1-2 days!

EDIT: I pity the PDX devs, it makes me feel bad that they're trying to build their game as much off of player feedback as possible, but there are times here and there where they shouldn't be making such sweeping changes. The original vision was solid, but needed polish. The current product feels like its straying away from that original vision. The game is getting weirder every major patch.

What are you talking about? 1.4 has the same manual trades like before with the option to add Auto trade. You can literally trade with any market you want and choose individual trades too. You can even mix the auto trades with your specialised trades that you pick (like sell all your cloth to 1 single market of your choice) then have the auto trade use the rest of your unused trade if you want or turn auto trade off. It's 1000% better now.
As for the battle speed, they said they're slowing battle speed down on 1.4 to match the day ticks.

I will eat my words right now if you point me out on how to do manual trades, where 1 item is bought from 1 specific market and another item is bought from another specific market. Because I have been unable to do that. I have only been able to more or less 'whitelist' one or more markets, and the import requests I make automatically calculate the resources between whitelisted markets and then automatically import from the most profitable whitelisted market. I have been unable to specifically buy 'english wool' and 'french wine' at the same time. The game picks which markets from my whitelist to import from on my behalf when i put an import order in for wool and wine in the custom orders.

EDIT: I am currently eating my words. It took finagling but I got it. I will concede on that point. I'm still dying on the hill that hourly ticks should come back

[eaerion]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes hourly ticks tell something about PACING and not PERFORCMANCE. Most of people confuses those two terms and say stuff like "I want to be able to finish the game on max speed before I get old" which is about performance and not about pacing. Developers told that their decision about switching to daily tick was dictated by pacing and not performance and performance improvement we see in 1.4 could also be achieved without switching to daily ticks.

[Henchman Dave]

Originally posted by eaerion:

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes hourly ticks tell something about PACING and not PERFORCMANCE. Most of people confuses those two terms and say stuff like "I want to be able to finish the game on max speed before I get old" which is about performance and not about pacing. Developers told that their decision about switching to daily tick was dictated by pacing and not performance and performance improvement we see in 1.4 could also be achieved without switching to daily ticks.

I agree. By the devs' own words the hourly ticks only accounted for a miniscule portion of the performance change. Combat isn't fun to me anymore, playing smaller armies is significantly more difficult without the hourly ticks and the way the units move on the map is a lot uglier and more jarring to look at.