Livonian Order early game becomes harder

[Vjach]

Hi. I haven’t played for half a year; I just logged in to check out the changes, and as usual, I’m playing as the Livonian Order.
For those who don’t know, we’re a vassal of the Teutonic Order, dragged into a war with Lithuania, and from the very start, Lithuania captures Latgale and then the entire territory.

In the past, Bohemia used to join the war, apparently at the Teutons invitation. You could also get sponsorship a little earlier. (I’m not talking about exploiting the infinite gold glitch, I play without that.)

Now, however, the war ends very quickly, and the Teutons hand over all my territory to Lithuania.

The economy is terrible; it’s hard to get out of the red, and I can no longer unite Livonia till 1400 as I used to.

I’d appreciate some advice from anyone who plays on this difficulty setting.

I’ve tried a few different approaches myself, like the War of Independence with Sweden. But the preparation for that takes too long, because you have to break relations between Lithuania and Poland, and you end up with low income and almost no army. It’s a 50-50 chance when you start a second war with Lithuania to reclaim territory with the help of allies, they can take a very long time to mobilize, and you’ll get crushed quickly, but then your allies will come and help; for example, Sweden just takes Courland.

I’m not complaining overall, this is exactly what was missing at the start of the game. Now you can really feel the division of territory between Sweden, Novgorod, and Lithuania.

[tonypa]

Truce with Bohemia was added to Teutons same time as Lithuania was blocked to call in Poland. Now the war is between Teutons vs Lithuania (and subjects of both).

I would say it is 50/50 chance which side wins the first war, sometimes Teutons conquer half the Lithuania and sometimes Lithuania gets land instead. Lithuania starts with larger levies but Teurons have regular army, I have played both sides and war is winnable as either country. Consolidate your armies into larger unit and catch enemies when they are siegeing or after long march.

Now what usually happens next is this - PLC does not exist in EU5, Poland survives within the starting borders but Lithuania is quaranteed to disappear fat as their subjects will revolt and eastern neighbours are much stronger. Kiyv, Smolensk, Polotsk, one of these will push in, economy is even worse for Lithuania and they also suffer from being only pagan religion left in Europe so everyone hates them.

Personally, I do not like to start as subject in EU5, the extra trouble of gaining independence is not worth it and for many-many countries first 100 years is really boring, barely gaining any money to do anything and just waiting the plague to kill half your people.

[Vjach]

Originally posted by tonypa:

Truce with Bohemia was added to Teutons same time as Lithuania was blocked to call in Poland. Now the war is between Teutons vs Lithuania (and subjects of both).

I would say it is 50/50 chance which side wins the first war, sometimes Teutons conquer half the Lithuania and sometimes Lithuania gets land instead. Lithuania starts with larger levies but Teurons have regular army, I have played both sides and war is winnable as either country. Consolidate your armies into larger unit and catch enemies when they are siegeing or after long march.

Now what usually happens next is this - PLC does not exist in EU5, Poland survives within the starting borders but Lithuania is quaranteed to disappear fat as their subjects will revolt and eastern neighbours are much stronger. Kiyv, Smolensk, Polotsk, one of these will push in, economy is even worse for Lithuania and they also suffer from being only pagan religion left in Europe so everyone hates them.

Personally, I do not like to start as subject in EU5, the extra trouble of gaining independence is not worth it and for many-many countries first 100 years is really boring, barely gaining any money to do anything and just waiting the plague to kill half your people.

That's the whole point of playing hard nation ;D
I want to try to survive, conquer all of Livonia, and reform into the Muslim military order.

If I'm not mistaken, they added this feature.

[ABoxFullOfKittens]

Does the LO have the same mechanics as the TO?

[Vjach]

Originally posted by ABoxFullOfKittens:

Does the LO have the same mechanics as the TO?

Almost, but LO is a vassal of TO and have limited options to do something.