Drug Packer??

[DDog]

Not sure the benefit of the drug packer.. I thought it might have to inputs and one output.. but not true... I combine to belts from two exact same production lines... belts wait for each other to go in packer... not sure I see the benefit of combining two lines into a drug packer.. don't see that you sell more product...

[Marquez von Hinten]

use 2 drug packer and combine the output lines

[morikal]

The description isn't super clear (I was confused too).

It STORES UP finished products.
E.g., lets say its a level 1 packer (capacity 2)

Day 1 a pill goes in. Nothing comes out.
Day 2 a pill goes in. A box with 2 pills comes out.

This way you can have X (where X is the capacity of the packer) production lines each producing 1 output per day, all using the same output socket.

(Each line needs a packer)

Without the packer you would have a bottleneck at export time. In the above example, if you have 2 lines each producing 1 pill per day, the export socket would take 1 pill and one of the lines would be blocked from making anything that day.
With the packers each outputs a box every other day (containing 2 pills), so there is no more bottleneck.

[DDog]

If I use two pill makers on each production line.. and they each have an export slot.. guess there is no need for a packer... if I have two lines each with two pill makers... when I combine the belts to go in the packer... one line is always waiting for the other..

[DDog]

maybe if someone would post a screenshot... that might help..

[morikal]

You don't combine the belts to go into a packer.

Line 1:

input 1 -><stuff> --> pill presser 1 --
...........................|-> pill presser 2 -|--> output 1

Line 2:
input 2 --> <stuff> --> pill presser 1 --
..............................|-> pill presser 2 -|--> output 2

</code>
Uses 4 slots (2 input, 2 output).

With packers, you can use 3 slots

<stuff> --> pill presser 1 --
|-> pill presser 2 -|--> packer --> shared belt --> output 1

Line 2:
<stuff> --> pill presser 1 --
.............|-> pill presser 2 -|--> packer --> shared belt --> output 1


If you tried that without the packers, you'd be putting 2 things onto the shared belt every day, and so the pressers would get backed up (because the output slot only takes 1 thing per day).

With the packers, it releases a box with 2 pills in it every other day. Each box is 1 item though and can be output in 1 tick. So every day a single box with 2 pills in it gets shipped out via output slot 1.

Its like how if you only had 1 pill presser, your whole line would back up. Once you upgrade the packer to capacity 3 or 4, you can have many more lines producing stuff and outputting to just a few slots.

[Just A Regular Shrimp]

Hi there,

In case the previous posts haven't been illuminating enough, here's a screenshot: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=509936198

You can clearly see the two packers feed the same line into a single output socket, freeing the other socket(s) for other uses. In this case it's an analyzer, but it could be anything!

You might not see the value straight away when starting out, but when you get to drug upgrade paths that require multiple catalysts, or start combining effects, you will find that slots get scarce, and this is a great way for you to free up some slots at the cost of a little space.

[shoopy]

Also note that to get them to run at 100% efficiency you have to sync them up so that one doesn't have to wait. i.e. you want it to produce exactly when there's a gap on the belt and not before, otherwise it will have to wait for a gap and waste time.

Edit:
And you can accomplish this by taking the last belt piece out before the packer and putting it in at the correct time so the line moves in sync.

[AlexMBrennan]

Also note that to get them to run at 100% efficiency you have to sync them up so that one doesn't have to wait

There is virtually no point in doing that, because at most you'd avoid your machines pausing for a single tick over the course of the entire game.

If you have to "wait" a single tick for a gap, then you'd end up producing only 359/360 products in the first year, or 99.72% of the theoretical maximum.
In the second year, you have 719/720, or 99.86% of the theoetical maximum production.
Over five years, it's 99.94%.

Improving production from 50% to 99.72% by using a packer is smart. Spending ages to improve production from 99.72% to 100% is not.

[shoopy]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Also note that to get them to run at 100% efficiency you have to sync them up so that one doesn't have to wait

There is virtually no point in doing that, because at most you'd avoid your machines pausing for a single tick over the course of the entire game.

If you have to "wait" a single tick for a gap, then you'd end up producing only 359/360 products in the first year, or 99.72% of the theoretical maximum.
In the second year, you have 719/720, or 99.86% of the theoetical maximum production.
Over five years, it's 99.94%.

Improving production from 50% to 99.72% by using a packer is smart. Spending ages to improve production from 99.72% to 100% is not.

First, it doesn't take ages. It takes maybe 5 seconds.

Second, it can be messed up by a lot more than one tick. For example I had one line that output NOTHING every few days. I see no reason to not fix that if it's as simple as picking up one conveyor piece and waiting a tick and setting it back down.

[morikal]

It fixes itself after 1 tick...

If a thing goes to output but isn't able to, it just waits until there is a gap. Yeah?

Can you explain the scenario in which it won't fix itself in a single tick?

[shoopy]

Originally posted by morikal:

It fixes itself after 1 tick...

If a thing goes to output but isn't able to, it just waits until there is a gap. Yeah?

Can you explain the scenario in which it won't fix itself in a single tick?

Belt backups can cause a phase oscillation where the problem does not fix itself. For example if the two packers can't be next to each other they won't halt because for now there is room since it requires at least two pills to fill a box. e.g. if you have a leader coming out of your packer that can hold more than one box, and the junction has to wait 1 tick, you can end up with a repeating line lag because it will double up boxes every so often and then have to clear them out.

Edit:
Or basically because of belt layout the packers can put out more than the belt can export which means eventually at the belt junction one box must get held up, but the packer is still outputting which effectivly removes a gap from the line. Because the gap is removed from the line the other packer gets held up eventually and outputs out of sync and you get doubled up boxes which jams the junction again, which jams the other packer and puts them both back in sync and the process repeats itself.

[AlexMBrennan]

Or basically because of belt layout the packers can put out more than the belt can export

Yes, you get problems when you try to use three basic packers sharing a single export belt, but that's by design - you produce three pills per tick, and can only export two (packed into a box) per tick. This cannot be fixed by layout tricks because the only solution is more output belts or stuffing more pills into each box.

When you have two packers outputting onto the same output belt, there are two possible situations: Either there is a space when the 2nd packer tries to put a box onto the belt, or there is not.
If there is a space, then the 2nd packer can simply add the box and continue working. Everything is well.

If there the output belt is occupied, then it follows that the next space on the output belt must be empty. Therefore, the packer has to wait one tick before being able to place the box on the belt and start working again. Because of this one tick wait, the next box will be done when there is space on the belt (i.e. the system "fixes itself").
[A even more likely scenario is that you have T belt junction, which serves to buffer boxes - if there is a space, it will immediately be moved on to the output belt; else, it will just wait for one tick whilst the packer keeps working]

First, it doesn't take ages. It takes maybe 5 seconds.

No, it doesn't. You have to make sure that the first box from the 2nd line reaches the output belt immediatley after the first box from the 1st line, so you have to make sure that you start them at exactly the right time (based on the length of the conveyors, number of machines and so on) for no benefit whatsoever.

[shoopy]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Or basically because of belt layout the packers can put out more than the belt can export

Yes, you get problems when you try to use three basic packers sharing a single export belt, but that's by design - you produce three pills per tick, and can only export two (packed into a box) per tick. This cannot be fixed by layout tricks because the only solution is more output belts or stuffing more pills into each box.

When you have two packers outputting onto the same output belt, there are two possible situations: Either there is a space when the 2nd packer tries to put a box onto the belt, or there is not.
If there is a space, then the 2nd packer can simply add the box and continue working. Everything is well.

If there the output belt is occupied, then it follows that the next space on the output belt must be empty. Therefore, the packer has to wait one tick before being able to place the box on the belt and start working again. Because of this one tick wait, the next box will be done when there is space on the belt (i.e. the system "fixes itself").
[A even more likely scenario is that you have T belt junction, which serves to buffer boxes - if there is a space, it will immediately be moved on to the output belt; else, it will just wait for one tick whilst the packer keeps working]

First, it doesn't take ages. It takes maybe 5 seconds.

No, it doesn't. You have to make sure that the first box from the 2nd line reaches the output belt immediatley after the first box from the 1st line, so you have to make sure that you start them at exactly the right time (based on the length of the conveyors, number of machines and so on) for no benefit whatsoever.

All of that depends on the level of uprage of the packers. And you don't need to wait if you look at where the obstruction is. If one box is arriving too early you halt that packer for a moment to put it on a different phase.

The granularity is by whole ticks since all belts move at the same time so you're either on the right one or you are not. If you're not on the right one then stall it until you are. It isn't that complicated.

You're reading way too much into what I said and making it unnecessarily complex.

[shoopy]

Well I tried to prove it but it doesn't work anymore. Turns out that this used to be a bug that was patched.

Research packers, do not upgrade (or use more packers to match the upgrade level). Place two packers side by side (touching) with a belt running across in front of them, connecting their outputs. Continue that belt past one of the packers, creating a T junction in front of it, attaching it to a socket for output. Place two pill printers behind each packer with just enough room to connect each pair to the respective packer with belts. Set up some simple drug production to feed both pairs of printers.

If a box from the first packer is waiting to move into the T junction, the T will accept that box even if the attached packer has output ready, and that packer will stall, not accepting any input and causing the entire production line behind it to skip a day. This results in frequent gaps on the output belt, significantly degrading the utility of the packer.

[Mr Baleen the Whale]

The packer is the best. So if you (normally) have 2 production lines, you'd have an input point for the ingredient on one side, and then an out put. Thus you'd be using 4 of the wall points. The packer allows you to use 3 (at the basic level- as it levels up you can have 3 or 4 items all exiting at the same place). This allows you to put another production line in, effectivly increasing you income. When you level it up to have 3 items per a box, you can have 3 different items all exporting in the same place. If you were doing 3 items "normally", you would need 6 wall point (3 in, 3 out). With the packer, you only need 4, allowing for an entirely different drug to also be made (so instead of being ably to have 3 drugs produced, you can produce 4). It is, tbh, one of the best and most powerfull items in the game (even beating the hadron collider) as it is fast, small, and allows you to build loads of extra drugs.
***EDIT***
You can also make drugs feed in in order. It takes a little messing around with the pills, but it makes it more powerfull. To do this, remove the convayor belt leading into the packer, and then replace it. Keep doing this untill you have the timing correct.