Patents - Game Breaker

[GamesOfMine]

Hi there.

This isn't some tirade or rage post. Also, it is very rare I post something which is purely negative about a game.

Firstly, I'd like to mention that I bought the game yesterday, started streaming it for a couple of hours but the session ended up running to almost 14 hours. I love the game so much!

However (and the title does give the point of this thread away), one thing that has broken the game (IMHO) is the fact that patents can be issued for drugs/delivery combos that have already been created and are actively being sold already.

I know this isn't a real life sim but to go completely against the "real-world" rules/laws/guidance for patents (that being of prior art) seems extremely questionable.

Please, at least give the option to use patents in a more realistic manner (I.E. Only allowed for drugs that have not already been created by other players).

This is a fantastic game but (again IMHO) is broken by current implementation of the in-game patent system.

Regards and respect!

[Hooch]

There are a lot of things that are completely unrealistic. It wasn't meant to be realistic.

While in custom game mode you do not have the option to turn Patents off*, you can at least adjust the cost and time required for them, making them so that it would be foolish for your competitors to use them.

It's not a perfect solution, but it may at least remove a part of the frustration of them.

----

* as a poster below notes, you can actually turn patents off.

[LloydSev]

Patents are also one time use. Once a patent expires on a product it can never be renewed, so it only affects you for a short period of time.

[Stinkflipper Incarnate]

Oddly enough, my competitor seems to happily sell meds that have been patented by me. He kicked me out of one market and I thought I'd return the favour... no such luck, apparently.

Edit: I misunderstood the system, he had a side effect in his drug.

[GamesOfMine]

Both very valid posts and I know there's many who will like the patents as they stand (probably when being used by the players against the AI LOL). This is why I ask for it to be an option instead of a hard-wired change to the game mechanics.

[clvnhbs]

1. In custom games, patents can be turned off (disable research option - pick patents)
2. The patent mechanic isn't intended to imitate real-life really, it's simply there to add an interesting way of cutting out the competition from a market.
3. The way to get around patents is simple - patents (in-game, not IRL) are issued only for ACTIVE effects, not for the final form. So you can either sell the exact same cure in a cream or syringe (if the patent is for a pill and vice-versa) or add/remove side effects with extra processing and still sell the cure.

For a game whose core mechanic revolves around just increasing/decreasing chemical concentration as a way of making drgs, I don't know realistic we can expect the patents to be!

[Hooch]

Originally posted by clvnhbs:

1. In custom games, patents can be turned off (disable research option - pick patents)

Wow...you are right! I can't believe I missed that one.

Thanks.

3. The way to get around patents is simple - patents (in-game, not IRL) are issued only for ACTIVE effects, not for the final form. So you can either sell the exact same cure in a cream or syringe (if the patent is for a pill and vice-versa) or add/remove side effects with extra processing and still sell the cure.

Very true. That's how I got around a patent for an effect delivered in a pill. I just swapped my pill makers out for a cream maker, and voila! New product to sell.

[GamesOfMine]

Well, to be fair. I'm not complaining because the in-game patent system is not realistic.

I am complaining that the in-game patent system is so against real world patents that it breaks the game (for me and IMHO).

For example:
You play a mission that has only one main objective: Supply x number of drugs.

You get everything researched and then push for the final 100 or so pills. Even dropping into the red (money-wise) and you know you're going to succeed. Everything is set to get Master for it.

Then, some AI drops a patent troll on you. You can't add any extra equipment so you got to sit there and watch the timer run down.

Yep, I know in this case, an argument can be made that the player shouldn't miss-manage their money etc... But this does break "their" game and breaks it due to something that is so against IRL patents that it is simply not funny.

I just want the *option* to have patents only applicable to drugs that have not yet been created/supplied. Something from a coding point of view isn't majorly difficult to implement but could for many be an important feature.

All I can go by is my own experience with the game, which I truly love... except for this crazy method of patents which does... for me... break the game.

But thanks for the good chat about the subject. :-)

[AlexMBrennan]

Firstly, you can buy cheap, short duration patents for mission-critical drugs. If the mission requires you to sell a specific drug, then leaving yourself open to this kind of sabotage is a major gamble.

Secondly, it's not even unreealistic because your company would almost certainly fail if your business model is selling an expensive, new drug you do not hold the patent for - everyone else could immediately copy it, and you'd never recoup the cost of development. If you want realism, you should be *glad* that you lost that game.

Finally, in my limited experience I didn't find the AI's use of patents to be all that smart - instead of going for sensible things like patenting cremes (thereby forcing me to either shut down production entirely, or switch to inferior pills with stronger side effects), they patented a bunch of pills which allowed me to trivially get around the issue by swapping pill printers for cremes.

[Twice Circled]

Would you like me to make mod which disables patents in all levels? It's easy to do. :)

[FreedomFighter]

I actually like the Patent System since i use it to screw over my competitor business. I will look into my competitor about which medicine they made, then i will make only 1 of them to have it on my list. If that medicine sell really well on my competitor, patent strike him/her! I ♥♥♥♥ you not, i hammered one of my competitor business hard with this method. 5 Years game and he only made 200k annual while i made 500k.

[GamesOfMine]

@Twice Circled:
Hi there!

I really do not mean any disrespect to you or players but when you find a great game you can become more attached to it. When something happens that just completely pulls you out of the "zone" and shatters the fourth wall (yeah it's an acting term but pretty much sums it up), it can amplify that "what the heck!" moment.

I was chatting with a few of my community members during my stream before the "patents issue" came up and discussing modding the game in general. I did notice Unity but I haven't had much experience with that particular engine (more of an UE4 user myself).

Anyway. Great game indeed and really look forward to more of it and if adding a mod to disable patents globally is the easiest and quickest way to deal with this then please do! :-)

Though I will still say that giving the option to make patents apply only to new designs would be the best way to do it. *BG*

Regards and respect.

[PawelK198604]

Originally posted by 1BillionHex:

Hi there.

This isn't some tirade or rage post. Also, it is very rare I post something which is purely negative about a game.

Firstly, I'd like to mention that I bought the game yesterday, started streaming it for a couple of hours but the session ended up running to almost 14 hours. I love the game so much!

However (and the title does give the point of this thread away), one thing that has broken the game (IMHO) is the fact that patents can be issued for drugs/delivery combos that have already been created and are actively being sold already.

I know this isn't a real life sim but to go completely against the "real-world" rules/laws/guidance for patents (that being of prior art) seems extremely questionable.

Please, at least give the option to use patents in a more realistic manner (I.E. Only allowed for drugs that have not already been created by other players).

This is a fantastic game but (again IMHO) is broken by current implementation of the in-game patent system.

Regards and respect!

It depends, for example, yesterday I played the first game of the campaign, in which I could patent products, my opponent introduced the drug for anxiety, of course, did not patent his formula, had revenues of $ 600 a day, I quickly introduced my version of the drug, both versions of pills and ointments, and soon I patented my solution :-)
It was a double knockout.

PS what is the best technology to research at start?

[mLegion]

Currently the way patents work right now is really annoying, they also include boosters in their description so a 'soothes coughing, easy to swallow' patent allows 'soothes coughing' to still be sold, also the AI often leaves side effects in that you can easily get rid of meaning that petenting your drugs often does nothing as the AI has a version with a side-effect.

Would it be possible for patents to ONLY apply to the active beneficial effects and not boosters and side-effects?

[PawelK198604]

Originally posted by mLegion:

Currently the way patents work right now is really annoying, they also include boosters in their description so a 'soothes coughing, easy to swallow' patent allows 'soothes coughing' to still be sold, also the AI often leaves side effects in that you can easily get rid of meaning that petenting your drugs often does nothing as the AI has a version with a side-effect.

Would it be possible for patents to ONLY apply to the active beneficial effects and not boosters and side-effects?

I'm new ad this game but i like it :-)
I had problem at first with producing drugs that requered catalyst like ADHD for exemple, but i'm goinhg to understand how it works :-)
Can you advise me how to use multimixer to add catalsyt properly?

[cdarklock]

Originally posted by 1BillionHex:

I know this isn't a real life sim but to go completely against the "real-world" rules/laws/guidance for patents (that being of prior art) seems extremely questionable.

Prior art is for copyright. Patents work a little differently. If you invent something and do not file a patent, someone else can file after the fact and be awarded the patent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_to_file_and_first_to_invent