A full speed production line with centrifuge, how to do with only 2 input sockets?

[narf03]

Title said it, i have only 2 input socket and these 2 sockets need to provide 2 types of raw material to 3 centrifuges, then these 3 centrifuges supposed to combine output for further processing, any examples ?

[Emmote]

Split the ingredients from those two ports into 3 each, and then cross them over. As long as you have at most 50% throughput per belt, you can cross-belt them (+) and not have any loss of throughput.

[narf03]

any samples ?

[Targa]

From what I can see, it's mathematically impossible to do. Even if each line had a direct connection to one machine, the other two would have to be crossed over. However, since you'd be trying to put 2/3 of the materials across belts that can only do 1/2 materials (because of crossovers), it's not going to be possible. That's not to mention you need two crossovers. The best solution I can see is to mod the centrifuge to a speed of 2.

After testing, on paper you can make it work by dividing the line into 3rds, but in practice, whenever there's a crossover the game will alternate 50/50. So for example, if you have a line carrying 2/3 of the ingredients from one belt crossing over a line that carries 1/3 of the ingredients from the other belt, the game won't push them through at a ratio of 2/1, but rather does it at 1/1.

[Emmote]

It's definitely possible, I use it whenever I use Centrifuges. You just have to split the belts into 3 before you do any crossovers and in a particular way so the back-clogging floods the belt that won't do any crossing over, and the overflow feeds into the rest.
Because of the way it is done, no belt ever exceeds 50% throughput, and so, the crossover belts can work without any interruptions.

As so:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=522718923

They key here is the splits marked with green 1's. It must be done that way.
As you can see from the Pink distance lines, all 3 centrifuges are running flat out.

[Phoenix]

Hmm, interesting... I always thought that crossing marked with 1 always moves "symetrically", so it's able to move only 3 resource to each way per 6 ticks. But, looking at the picture, it seems it moves 4 resource into one way and 2 into another. That confuses me.

[narf03]

hmm interesting, i wasnt able to imagine how it manage to work, ill need to try it out, thanks for your smart idea.

[narf03]

Just did it, it seems sometimes the belt has no idea which direction u want it to travel, had to delete some tiles, rebuild it, hope it point to the correct direction. And almost need 60-90 game days to test it out.

[Emmote]

Yeah, it's very tempremental with belt crossing. The AI is pretty crap at deciding which way to go.
But once you've done it a few times you get used to it.

[Mansen]

Originally posted by Emmote:

Yeah, it's very tempremental with belt crossing. The AI is pretty crap at deciding which way to go.
But once you've done it a few times you get used to it.

You should definitely report this to Tim. He's been working on fixing belt sorting for a while.

[Twice Circled]

Very interesting. I think the only thing I can add to this discussion is a clarification on how splitters work. They always alternate when they are able to. This means that if one of the outputs is backing up, it will push down the other one. You can see this happening to the top right of the screenshot. The first output is backing up and can only take 1 ingredient every 3 ticks. During the other 2 ticks, it goes down the other output. This gives you a 1->3 split.

I would have thought it was possible to also do this with a 1->3 splitter four-way junction (crossroad). Does this not work?

[narf03]

Originally posted by Twice Circled:

Very interesting. I think the only thing I can add to this discussion is a clarification on how splitters work. They always alternate when they are able to. This means that if one of the outputs is backing up, it will push down the other one. You can see this happening to the top right of the screenshot. The first output is backing up and can only take 1 ingredient every 3 ticks. During the other 2 ticks, it goes down the other output. This gives you a 1->3 split.

I would have thought it was possible to also do this with a 1->3 splitter four-way junction (crossroad). Does this not work?

Keep a save game b4 u complete a scenario, so u can easily test whatever u want.

[Emmote]

I've tried many methods and the only one I've gotten to work is the one above.

All other methods I've tried will work for the nearest two centrifuges and the 3rd line just won't continue over a crossbelt (+). It's like the 3rd belt just forgets it's got somewhere to go.

I'm not really sure why it does it either. Maybe because to get to the third Centrifuge it has to crossbelt twice, and because of that it can't figure out where it's got to go, or something?

Originally posted by Twice Circled:

I would have thought it was possible to also do this with a 1->3 splitter four-way junction (crossroad). Does this not work?

Not at all. It results in a huge mess. No amount of cleaning up by manually removing ingredients to free up routes would fix it.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=523865545

[GuiltyBystander]

Originally posted by Emmote:

Originally posted by Twice Circled:

I would have thought it was possible to also do this with a 1->3 splitter four-way junction (crossroad). Does this not work?

Not at all. It results in a huge mess. No amount of cleaning up by manually removing ingredients to free up routes would fix it.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=523865545

I got it working just fine. I went to go load my Free Build map to take a screen shot and found it wasn't working anymore. Had to rebuild it to get it working again. I'm still fiddling with it trying to find a more compact way to do it. I haven't put this in a real playthrough yet.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=524739230

One thing I found that helps to get this working is that you shouldn't cross a 2/3 load line with a 1/3 load line. Technically it should work but I think the priority system causes it to studder a bit. Only cross a 1/3 with a 1/3 line.

EDIT: Tried saving & loading to double check that error and it broke again. It must not save the belt directions and be rebuilding them wrong.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by GuiltyBystander:

EDIT: Tried saving & loading to double check that error and it broke again. It must not save the belt directions and be rebuilding them wrong.

Yeah, it seems to me too that most mysterious bug with crossbelts is related to save/load. It makes perfectly synchronized lines with 2-speed machines to desynchronize, or, rarely, causes a full-stop. Let's hope Tim will figure it out eventually.

[Twice Circled]

Oooh that's not good. OK I think I understand better now. Looks like there are two issues here:

1. The crossroads seems to be getting confused in your attempt of 3->1 splitters. They should carry the direction from each of the centrifuge inputs to the splitters. This should be possible.

2. Save/load sync, it must be in the way the belts are laid at start-up. I imagine the order can make a difference. I thought I had made the system robust but perhaps not. Please do understand, it's very complicated getting things working perfectly given the innate ambiguousness of 3-ways and 4-ways. I will try my best to get it fixed though.