Unity engine discussion

[RandalMcdaniel]

I have been following this game pretty closely watching streams, youtube videos, etc. And just like all the other building/crafting games rust, starforge, the dead linger, savage lands, the forest, the fifth day, the long dark.. I hear a lot of the complaints being about fps, stutters, and uneven framerates already. Just as i had expected.

Why do these unity survival games all have such uneven and unpredictable performances even on high end systems? Not to trash talk or anything, but the graphics output by the unity engine seem very basic to me. (this game does actually look quite nice tho) The long dark for example has very basic flat graphics and still manages to have low fps on unity engine.

It just seems like there is something about unity engine that just does not seem to be designed for these open world multiplayer survivals or something.. Heck all these games run just as bad if not worse than dayz. (fps drops in areas with houses/buildings and other mesh-wireframe objects)

The fanboys say "runs fine here 90+fps" and completely ignore the unavoidable performance hitches that unity engine has when stream-loading new sections of the map or when the framerate goes from 100 to 18 when you approach someones base or look out into the forest.

Whenever a survival/builder game comes out using a different engine other then unity i get super excited because i know it will run smooth (h1z1 uses forgelight, miscreated uses cryengine, aftermath uses eclipse and all those games run incredibly smooth),

I just find it too much of a coincidence that all these survival games using unity are just "not optimized because of the devs" I dont buy that.

Sometimes i wonder if there are any developer that can send a message to the creators of the unity engine and request that they investigate what causes the performance drops of the unity engine open world games.

i7 4770k, 16gb ram, R9 290X 4gb, 240gb ssd, 1000 watt 80plus gold psu

[Noggs]

My spec is very similar to your's and i have the same issues.

[EduInmigrante]

i cant play this ♥♥♥♥ because devs cant fix my problem.

[Rimming Enjoyer]

Playin at 1400x900, everything at the lowest. So, basicly, It looks like ♥♥♥♥, still runs like ♥♥♥♥ aswell. It's not even close to playable atm. And everyone lags around.

[Fused]

4k, i7, 16gb memory 780ti and it runs at 40fps. 2k i get about 60-70. The lag is caused by the AI. It's just poor coding. All games mentioned are early access without optimization.

[FrankP]

Just saying, 7 days to die uses unity and that game is nicely optimized. heck, they're upgrading to unity 5 now, were abled to upgrade the graphics immensly, and still saw a huge improvement in optimization. I would say it's partially the coder's fault in poor optimization as well as the engine. Every game you mentioned, minus starforge which is complete and rust which is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in itself, is at the very beginning still of it's development. You say how great h1z1 is with forgelight? let's go back to day 1 where it was ♥♥♥♥. crashes, very poor fps no matter which brand card you had. they fixed it through patches. this game is only at A4, give it a chance.

Yes, CH developed starforge and they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. This time, they're actually responding well to the community, trying to make it right. They're making an awesome game. to be honest, yes there are bugs, but with all the current things you can do in this game, its already worth the value.

[RandalMcdaniel]

I dont think codehatch are bad developers or anything, i just think its not a coincidence that all these open world unity engine games suffer from the same issues.

I was hoping unity 5 would be the fix-all but that does not seem to be the case either.

I think its just because unity was originally made as a web browser engine, then mobile, now open world sandbox is a pretty big jump.

Another example i should have added to this list is "the long dark" as it has very basic graphics and still manages to have fps drops as well

[duck9r]

It's the Unity Engine, not them. All Unity games vary heavily in performance. It runs great for me, and I'm on a mid-grade system.

[CotaBucky]

Originally posted by FrankP:

Just saying, 7 days to die uses unity and that game is nicely optimized. heck, they're upgrading to unity 5 now, were abled to upgrade the graphics immensly, and still saw a huge improvement in optimization. I would say it's partially the coder's fault in poor optimization as well as the engine. Every game you mentioned, minus starforge which is complete and rust which is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in itself, is at the very beginning still of it's development. You say how great h1z1 is with forgelight? let's go back to day 1 where it was ♥♥♥♥. crashes, very poor fps no matter which brand card you had. they fixed it through patches. this game is only at A4, give it a chance.

Yes, CH developed starforge and they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. This time, they're actually responding well to the community, trying to make it right. They're making an awesome game. to be honest, yes there are bugs, but with all the current things you can do in this game, its already worth the value.

I agree and have over 850hrs into 7dtd. I have a stutter here and there if i'm running constant as stuff i'm guessing loads in the back end but my framerates stay well into the 70's with settings nearly maxed out 1080p.Running g sync if that matters so in game the settings are set to 144hz in ROK graphics settings. I'm guessing they just need to work stuff out(as they say they are in the sticky)

[Sutorx]

My server doesnt have any of those problems? maybe its not running on an optimized server, mine runs with dual xeons with 32gb of ram. try it out to see if you still get bad performance, let me know either way please. Search for Sutorx its **a sutorx ROK chicago area. We are building an arena right now were we can spawn in animals and those demon things. The arena isnt finished yet but your welcome to come check it out.

[RandalMcdaniel]

well i know its possible to have open world online building games run smoothly. (you will laugh at me for this example) but the guys who made warz are making a new game called "aftermath" and it has building and crafting and all that stuff and no matter how far you run the game never stutters like in these unity engine games.. And you can actually build a really big base and it will never stutter or jerk (the framerate may drop down to like 40 but it never jerks or stutters)

And in unity engine games the performance TANKS HARD when you are in mesh-wireframe dense areas (like places with buildings and houses and a lot of right angles etc)

Its as if the unity engine has no culling at all and just renders everything. From my understanding culling is when the game ONLY renders what you are actually looking at and ignores all the graphics you can not see (like behind your character for example). If done poorly (like in RAGE or wolfenstein the new order) you can turn around really quickly and see the white emptiness from culling. Games that do not have any culling (dayz) just render all the buildings even if you can not see them from where you are standing.

Warz i know is a crap game and all, but for an online multiplayer open world i am impressed with that game engine and its ability to get 100+ fps in cities with many buildings and dense skyscrapers around

Maybe they will optimize unity better for open world games in a future version of unity who knows

[Nocturnal626]

Last night i was playing with a buddy. Took me forever to find him he was farthest away from king's landing. Anyways i grab some water and chase a moose around for 30 minutes trying to get food. I stopped on the shore and built a firepit to cook the food really quickly and met two really chill dudes but could not stop! I have a quest to find my friends. I finally run into him and as we are gathering supplies we run into a sleeping player. We decide to tie him up and take him to base.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725181
Once their we build a cage and put him inside so when he logs in he will be our prisoner.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725214
So the plan is to use him as a gatherer for wood and supplies while we have someone with a whip keep him in line! So after that fun and a bit of laughs we start all building our own house so we can have a small community. While building we run into someone building next to us turns out he is very chill. A short time later our neighbor comes running up screaming someone is breaking into my house!! they are hammering on my door! We come running with Spears and An Axe!!! The guy breaking in had amazing armor and we are all naked chasing this armored man around.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725079
After lowering his health he decides to log out of the game either not knowing or caring that his body would be laying right there so we tie him up take him to base and put him in a cage!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725003
We also lost one of our men in the process...
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409724923
So after a bit of debate on what to do with our prisoner that attacked us. We decided to have a blood orgy and take his stuff.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725254
Then I finish up the basics of my house and put up 4 doors for extra protection and log out for the night!!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409725332

That was one of the most enjoyable Experiences i have had in gaming for a while!! It was hilarious and just a ton of fun! Hope you enjoyed the read anyone else have a similar fun time like this? Maybe today i will get some video.

[Coe⁧⁧✔️[Quality Control]]

H1Z1 does by no means, "Run smooth". It is one of the most poorly optimized game I've ever played.

The "connection" you are seeing with the mixes of these games is simple to explain and has little to nothing to do with the engine. Making games look - and run good is hard. Game design in general is very difficult and requires a lot of experience. Most of the games you've mentioned are very heavy in things like foilage (You may blame the "survival theme" for this) and If you have 20 km2 of the stuff, shít will go down on giving your computer work to do rendering it all.

What RoK's situation leads down to is a clusterfúck combination of the in-game lightning, the moving shadows, individual objects in en-massé, an almost non-existant 'proper' view distance grace function and last but not least, server-side problems.. As most of you have probably already experienced in terms of crashes, spikes, freezes, disconnects and inability to join. They are very alpha-esque and the developers have realized this, thus they are focusing on making the game perform better.

[RandalMcdaniel]

I really dont think it has anything to do with 3D rendering. If you join an empty server and look at the ground your fps will be like 160.. Then as the server slowly fills up to 40players (and you are still looking at the same spot on the ground) your fps will then be 45. So it's just the engine and the multiplayer and the way it handles players and memory and all that crap

[f no u]

so then why do i get like for example 50 fps on a completely empty server with nothing build, and with people and a huge ass buildings i still get 45, not much change in fps besides the 2 second lag spike you get when the building loads in

[B4nj0]

RandalMcdaniel im develoing games in the unity engine.
I just implemented a full voxel system in unity and it all runs very nice with huge open world.
The only problem the unity engine has is, that its to easy to use.
You can create games per click and drop and just writing some small scripts.
You dont need any knowledge about anything to use the unity engine and get a finished game.
But as less knowledge you have, as more misstakes you do that drops the performance.

It makes a big difference if you try to render the whole world every frame or if you use smart techniques to lower the rendering costs (unity has standart techniques, and if you trust on them for a open world game you get ♥♥♥♥♥♥)
It makes a big difference if you have a client gameloop that relies on reciving server messages or that runs fully asynchron (or in easywords if you fps are depend your ping or not)

The servercode for reign of kings is totaly messed up and thats shows how less experience the developers realy had (they wouldnt be able to create this game with anything else then the easy to use engines like unity).
When it comes to hack security they did basicaly every misstake you could make when writing a gameserver.

The last thing is, that if you develop in unity, noone force you to use unity out of the box.
You can get the full source code license if you need and customize unity to its core.
Its up to the developers how much they customize, and alot of new startups just build games in unity per drag and drop with some prefabs wich runs good on their development machines and is a mess out in the real world.

I was able to render a 1km x 1km "terrain" with full vegetation on my Samsung Galaxy S2 nearly to arma1 - arma2 graphics using unity already 2 years ago