x3 Binary vs x6LL

[Mr_Puddins]

I really like rocking my Black Knight with x3 Binary. Now apart from say, a Supernova with x6ERLL, why would I use x6LL on say a Rifleman?

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

None of those acronyms mean anything, use the ones that have been in the game for decades (since pen and paper days). Its jargon, not slang.

[Sar]

lol @ this guy

[spartanspud]

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Gamer:

None of those acronyms mean anything, use the ones that have been in the game for decades (since pen and paper days). Its jargon, not slang.

What are you talking about? ERLL and LL are ER Large Laser and Large Laser. I can't even fathom what else the acronyms could be.
If it ever was anything different, changing it to the most obvious thing was a wise solution.

Anyway, to answer the question, the reason why is you have more control over what you're firing and can distribute the weapons evenly. So if you lose one arm on the Rifleman you lost 66% of your firepower with the binaries, for both arms 100%. But with large lasers you lost 33 and 66% for losing one and then both arms. While still having weapons in the torso.

[talemore]

Originally posted by spartanspud:

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Gamer:

None of those acronyms mean anything, use the ones that have been in the game for decades (since pen and paper days). Its jargon, not slang.

What are you talking about? ERLL and LL are ER Large Laser and Large Laser. I can't even fathom what else the acronyms could be.
If it ever was anything different, changing it to the most obvious thing was a wise solution.

Anyway, to answer the question, the reason why is you have more control over what you're firing and can distribute the weapons evenly. So if you lose one arm on the Rifleman you lost 66% of your firepower with the binaries, for both arms 100%. But with large lasers you lost 33 and 66% for losing one and then both arms. While still having weapons in the torso.

It's not really.

The reason why multiple weapons added is to secondary shots. Since this game cheats A LOT on your heat capacity you can shoot so many guns at once that it's simply just cheating.

No, the main reason is that you would hit the heat capacity limit if you shot all weapons at once and there is no such thing as multi-targeting in this game.

When you hit the limit you can add more guns in a second list of guns.

But if you had a single gun dealing 120% of your heat capacity you can't transfer it to the second grocery list, you just going to take the heat as damage to your own mech.

It's not ghost heat, since that is extra heat given ontop of the heat you already created. But if let's say you would alpha strike 150% of your heat capacity you can lower it by taking the next shot at a 70% heat, compared to a much hotter gun you would have to wait for a longer time unless you are one of those who suicide with their mech, knowing that the game cheats so hard to benefit damage over survival that you can simply win by killing them before they do.

It actually benefit to have 2xBLL and 2xLL

Since large laser takes less time to make the next shot.

[talemore]

It has nothing to do with accuracy or any of that sort. Multi-targeting doesn’t exist.

[spartanspud]

Originally posted by talemore:

It has nothing to do with accuracy or any of that sort. Multi-targeting doesn’t exist.

Who said anything about multi targeting? What are you babbling about Talemore?

[climbingeastofwinter]

Originally posted by Mr_Puddins:

I really like rocking my Black Knight with x3 Binary. Now apart from say, a Supernova with x6ERLL, why would I use x6LL on say a Rifleman?

Distributing your weapons so losing one or another mech part doesn't result in castastrophic loss of firepower, potentially, or in some situations (but not this situation probably) lack of enough critical slots on the body parts with the hardpoints to load it with what you'd want. Sometimes weapon mounts too -- some mechs have special mounting arrangements for should weapons or the like, and the number and order of weapons arranged on the hardpoints matters. Also, possibly quirks that are very specific about the weapons they affect.

For some of the newer IS equipment though, it's just straight up better and there's not really a reason not to use it. Usually. Sometimes, if you really can't hit a 150kph small target like a -PB or Pir, you might want to have more weapons to fire than fewer harder hitting, because you might expect to miss the majority of your damage but want to be able to keep firing more or less continuously to be able to reliably do some damage to the target.

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by Mr_Puddins:

Now apart from say, a Supernova with x6ERLL, why would I use x6LL on say a Rifleman?

Shorter burn time is essentially the only upside.

Binaries completely outclass standard LL in all but the most niche circumstances. The weight, hardpoint, and space savings are that good, and if you want quick laser punches LPL + ERML generally outclasses massed LL as a build archetype.

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

Distributing your weapons so losing one or another mech part doesn't result in castastrophic loss of firepower...

I've always thought it was the other way round - you want all the weapons concentrated so that you get a better peeking profile and superior convergence, and outside of certain exceptions (ex: Hunchback) it lets you shield for longer without losing your damage.

[Toaster]

LLs have always been kinda outclassed by LPLs and now its the same with BLCs. Like ressen said they're quite niche, but have uses on certain energy hardpoint bloated mechs.

Stonecrusher for example is better with 4LL+9ERML instead of 2 BLC +11ERML because the medium lasers wont fit in the HSL anymore and you dont have space to get any other use out of the extra tons aside upgrading to TC2. Obviously you can alpha 2 blc 11 ERML and eat the GH but I prefer the 4LL 9ERML for sustain and the alpha is only 10 less. Bullshark 2 can also benefit from using 4LL instead of 2 BLC. But hardpoint bloated builds also have gigavomit builds with 4BLC that work great.

I like running Black Knight 6B with either.

I wish they'd buff LLs somehow. Maybe give a bit range or even less heat. They're still the worst option of the 3 imo.

[spartanspud]

I think the Stalker with 6 LL shows buffing the LLs would probably be difficult without making them too effective.

[Toaster]

Originally posted by spartanspud:

I think the Stalker with 6 LL shows buffing the LLs would probably be difficult without making them too effective.

That Stalker would get nerfed then. But I dont think Cauldron wants to touch LLs anymore.

[Shiro]

Does OP talk abt 3x binary vs 3x LL, or 3x binary vs 6x LL? Former is rather obvious, if you only have 3 energy slots then maximize your alpha for sure. Just don't explode from it.
Latter, well 1x binary is slightly worse than 2x LL. Same damage over slightly longer time (don't forget that reload won't start until laser beam ends) and with slightly more heat, both per damage and per second. Only advantage binary has is weighting 1 less ton than 2 LLs, which is small enough you can counterweight by shaving some leg armor anyway. So if you have six energy slots, choose LLs. Or better yet LPLs if you have spare 12 tons of saved weight.

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Gamer:

None of those acronyms mean anything, use the ones that have been in the game for decades (since pen and paper days)..

Oh look who tries to pretend to be a Battletech fan in front of real Battletech-knowing guys.

[Mr_Puddins]

Interesting points fellas. I'm stilling strongly leaning towards the x3Binary, especially in the Black Kight as the Black Kight has the armor of an Assault class mech. I'm not totally sure about the differences in Quirks from the various mechs we've mentioned here. I see alot of players running the x6LL on the Rifleman or Stalker so it's definitely a thing.

[climbingeastofwinter]

Some people may be running those mech builds just because they have their built already and prefer them, and some may be running them because of the weapon hardpoint locations making it easier to take certain shots without exposing themselves as much.

Lower mounted weapons require sacrificing more cover if you're trying to shoot over terrain.

[spartanspud]

Originally posted by Toaster:

Originally posted by spartanspud:

I think the Stalker with 6 LL shows buffing the LLs would probably be difficult without making them too effective.

That Stalker would get nerfed then. But I dont think Cauldron wants to touch LLs anymore.

That stalker is fairly light on quirks anyway. Not much room for nerfing. And that's what I am saying. I don't think there is much need or desire to change large lasers.

Originally posted by Shiro:

Does OP talk abt 3x binary vs 3x LL, or 3x binary vs 6x LL? Former is rather obvious, if you only have 3 energy slots then maximize your alpha for sure. Just don't explode from it.
Latter, well 1x binary is slightly worse than 2x LL. Same damage over slightly longer time (don't forget that reload won't start until laser beam ends) and with slightly more heat, both per damage and per second. Only advantage binary has is weighting 1 less ton than 2 LLs, which is small enough you can counterweight by shaving some leg armor anyway. So if you have six energy slots, choose LLs. Or better yet LPLs if you have spare 12 tons of saved weight.

Originally posted by Grumpy Old Gamer:

None of those acronyms mean anything, use the ones that have been in the game for decades (since pen and paper days)..

Oh look who tries to pretend to be a Battletech fan in front of real Battletech-knowing guys.

He's talking about 3 binaries vs 6LL. That's why it's the title and in the original post...

Originally posted by Mr_Puddins:

Interesting points fellas. I'm stilling strongly leaning towards the x3Binary, especially in the Black Kight as the Black Kight has the armor of an Assault class mech. I'm not totally sure about the differences in Quirks from the various mechs we've mentioned here. I see alot of players running the x6LL on the Rifleman or Stalker so it's definitely a thing.

Yeah it depends on your preference, which mech it is etc. I generally prefer 6 large lasers but there are scenarios where I choose binaries.