Single Heatsink vs double heatsink heat capacity question

[kesuga7]

So the Double heatsink build dissipates more heat per second but will overheat in 3.4 alpha strikes as opposed to the single heatsink build which dissipates less heat per second but has 4.7 alpha strikes until overheat.

The SHS and DHS build could dissipate the same heat per second but the SHS version just has more capacity for the heat because of the higher amount of heatsinks?!!?

DHS version https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=cb87e570_STK-4N

SHS version https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=9823fdce_STK-4N

[Zero]

Originally posted by kesuga7:

So the Double heatsink build dissipates more heat per second but will overheat in 3.4 alpha strikes as opposed to the single heatsink build which dissipates less heat per second but has 4.7 alpha strikes until overheat.

The SHS and DHS build could dissipate the same heat per second but the SHS version just has more capacity for the heat because of the higher amount of heatsinks?!!?

DHS version https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=cb87e570_STK-4N

SHS version https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=9823fdce_STK-4N

SHS only has a light engine in it, adjusting it drops heat capacity down to only 9.3 points different.

alpha heat is only .9 off, totaling 6% in difference in heat after an alpha strike.

[talemore]

Doubles help most if you got space for many heatsinks. Have to consider that it help with dissipates and not as much with capacity. Many prefer doubles since they don't occupy any space inside the engine.

A piranha with double heatsinks is with correct build able to get 3 or even 4 alpha strikes in quick sessions using a combination of different low heat weapons.

Dissipate has most uses to reduce the heat before the engine explode. Drop the engine to 100 standard and use standard heatsinks.
Only the 120-170kph mechs are really benefiting from bigger engines. Clan assault mechs are fast enough that they're competing with heavier inner sphere light mechs on speed with many running at 80-85, You need at least 130kph to be able escape being hunted around the map by clan assault mechs. What they don't have in speed is range and the distance getting shorter the bigger gun and further they can shoot.

What you wish to use is up to you. standard heatsink allow the alpha strike without killing the mech. Those heatsinks can be placed a little of anywhere and soak up critical hits.

If you not going to run around there's not much benefit of doubles. To have the ability to overheat your opponent can be a strategy. That strategy is today obsolete as mechs don't overheat by flamers any longer on their own. Old ideas are not always true when the game changes.

Sure it can feel that we push the button and it feels like something happened but as example artemis most benefit is that you don't need to carry as much ammo. LRM 15 reduced to a LRM10 means 5 less missiles fired but they are shot down by AMS that it has to be considered of "pushing the button" because it feels like it changed something makes it worth it. Then we can look at the facts inside the game and the truth that artemis is reducing missiles , increases ammo but reduces penetration of defenses if there are such.

There's no truths since one standard heatsink build may work better on one build than the other. but standard at least let you stack targets for critical hits which otherwise would had destroyed small weapons.

[kesuga7]

Originally posted by Zero:

SHS only has a light engine in it, adjusting it drops heat capacity down to only 9.3 points different.
alpha heat is only .9 off, totaling 6% in difference in heat after an alpha strike.

Why would the engine matter - i thought that a XL/STD/Light engine don't have any kind of difference in heat loss

https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=723e39df_STK-4N i stuck in a standard and it has less heat loss per second but it still has a higher heat capacity (70.4 vs 56.0) and higher alpha strikes to over heat (4.6 vs 3.4)

[Deviantdemigodz]

Just like the Armor never really worked the heat sinks never worked right even in water in MWO. I suggest PGI start working to fix both Armor and Heat sinks . In Mechwarrior 4 the armor did work a mech would take up to 20 + hits before death in a battle and only on extreme lava maps would you overheat with double heat sinks and heat management by the player. Also you have to understand Mechwarrior 4 mechs had better defensive ability's than MWO mehs as well.

MWO mechs have been designed like MekTek Mechs were with total offence capability's and no defense ability even after skill points are applied .

[NamelessOne]

Originally posted by Deviantdemigodz:

Just like the Armor never really worked the heat sinks never worked right even in water in MWO. I suggest PGI start working to fix both Armor and Heat sinks . In Mechwarrior 4 the armor did work a mech would take up to 20 + hits before death in a battle and only on extreme lava maps would you overheat with double heat sinks and heat management by the player. Also you have to understand Mechwarrior 4 mechs had better defensive ability's than MWO mehs as well.

MWO mechs have been designed like MekTek Mechs were with total offence capability's and no defense ability even after skill points are applied .

The armor points for mwo mechs are much higher than the PNP versions, while damage isn't really higher other than higher right of fire on weapons (which should all be the same other than UAC and RAC). This higher RoF is a good part of the reason why mechs run very hot even if on TT they are close to heat neutral.

As for SHS/DHS: always go with DHS unless you are very knowledgeable about the game system. There are only a few builds where DHSs are suboptimal.

[Maj_Cyric]

Depends on the mech and what weapon Heat Gen is and what free tonnage/slots you're working with... Like take the BNC-3S or the BLR-3M as an example, they can full boat 8 ML/MPL/ERML and alpha strike with them with slot stacked SHS's and not have any over heating issues..
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=8d537283_BNC-3S
https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=bc6930ab_BLR-3M

But if you were to swap the ML's for LPL's then you'd want to be using DHS, since you won't have the free tonnage for SHS slot stacking.. But then those two mechs are quirked for Med laser vomit

[JC]

There are a few very odd builds that singles actually work better in IS builds. I don't recall which, i thought one was an awesome, but i don't recall. Outside of the very very rare build, just swap to doubles on everything.

[[WMKR] Petreus]

D A T A from JGx has a vid comparing SHS v DHS in an Atlas 'F-Atlas' /w 6 ErLarge Lasers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omdCwtqK0p4
He even demonstrates the effect of the 5 Heat Containment skill nodes on both of these configs.

[Xetelian]

Originally posted by talemore:

Doubles help most if you got space for many heatsinks. Have to consider that it help with dissipates and not as much with capacity. Many prefer doubles since they don't occupy any space inside the engine.

A piranha with double heatsinks is with correct build able to get 3 or even 4 alpha strikes in quick sessions using a combination of different low heat weapons.

Dissipate has most uses to reduce the heat before the engine explode. Drop the engine to 100 standard and use standard heatsinks.
Only the 120-170kph mechs are really benefiting from bigger engines. Clan assault mechs are fast enough that they're competing with heavier inner sphere light mechs on speed with many running at 80-85, You need at least 130kph to be able escape being hunted around the map by clan assault mechs. What they don't have in speed is range and the distance getting shorter the bigger gun and further they can shoot.

What you wish to use is up to you. standard heatsink allow the alpha strike without killing the mech. Those heatsinks can be placed a little of anywhere and soak up critical hits.

If you not going to run around there's not much benefit of doubles. To have the ability to overheat your opponent can be a strategy. That strategy is today obsolete as mechs don't overheat by flamers any longer on their own. Old ideas are not always true when the game changes.

Sure it can feel that we push the button and it feels like something happened but as example artemis most benefit is that you don't need to carry as much ammo. LRM 15 reduced to a LRM10 means 5 less missiles fired but they are shot down by AMS that it has to be considered of "pushing the button" because it feels like it changed something makes it worth it. Then we can look at the facts inside the game and the truth that artemis is reducing missiles , increases ammo but reduces penetration of defenses if there are such.

There's no truths since one standard heatsink build may work better on one build than the other. but standard at least let you stack targets for critical hits which otherwise would had destroyed small weapons.

That sure is a very long word salad.
Lets address why I quoted this

Originally posted by talemore:

Dissipate has most uses to reduce the heat before the engine explode. Drop the engine to 100 standard and use standard heatsinks.
Only the 120-170kph mechs are really benefiting from bigger engines. Clan assault mechs are fast enough that they're competing with heavier inner sphere light mechs on speed with many running at 80-85, You need at least 130kph to be able escape being hunted around the map by clan assault mechs. What they don't have in speed is range and the distance getting shorter the bigger gun and further they can shoot.

What are you talking about?

The most popular clan assaults run 56-64kph

You can escape from them in a heavy running a little more than 72kph and you can run circles around them and avoid hits (if you're good and the terrain allows it) in a 80-97kph medium

Don't tell people "Drop the engine to 100 standard and use standard heatsinks."

That is what you meant right? Is English a second language? I'm confused and a new player would be even more confused.



ON THE TOPIC

There are very very very rare edge cases where carrying Single Heat Sinks out performs doubles. These situations are very limited and usually means you have all slots and plenty of tons to fill your mech with SHS and have very light weapons no need for Endo or Fero.


Unless you're going for a very specific build, don't build around Single Heat Sinks.

These edge cases still aren't worth pursuing as your main solo drop mech

[Zyrrashijn]

https://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechlab?b=6bf18fb7_STK-4N
will give you a slightly higher dissipation than the DHS build with much higher heat capacity.
Heatsinks got a slight buff last patch, and it shows.

[Maj_Cyric]

Originally posted by talemore:

Dissipate has most uses to reduce the heat before the engine explode. Drop the engine to 100 standard and use standard heatsinks.

Huh? Is this advice on how to build a defense tower with legs?

Originally posted by talemore:

Only the 120-170kph mechs are really benefiting from bigger engines. Clan assault mechs are fast enough that they're competing with heavier inner sphere light mechs on speed with many running at 80-85, You need at least 130kph to be able escape being hunted around the map by clan assault mechs. What they don't have in speed is range and the distance getting shorter the bigger gun and further they can shoot.

Whut? Dire's, Gargoyles and Nova Cats running down light mechs Oh My!!!
Most of my favorite IS & Clan Heavy & certain Assault mechs aim for a speed around 80kph.. Hell one of my Marauder IIC's uses a 400 XL (I think the the II-C-8 does with 7 MPL).. Anywho, they aren't able to run down a 120kph and most def not a 170kph mech..

Besides it's not the role of a heavy/assault mech to chase squirrels (unless it's last target standing), that is how one finds them themselves alone and out numbered/gunned.. Besides Lights and/or speedy mechs are able to zig, zag, stop and pick up dropped spare change before dipping back in and out of cover (map knowledge is key)..

Originally posted by talemore:

If you not going to run around there's not much benefit of doubles. To have the ability to overheat your opponent can be a strategy. That strategy is today obsolete as mechs don't overheat by flamers any longer on their own. Old ideas are not always true when the game changes.

While yes the flamer trolling builds was "addressed", Flamers are still very useful to use in a weapon loadout for adding to a target's Heat Gen, fail players will shutdown from failing to notice that their weapon heat gen + taking heat from flamers pushed their heat gen scale over the line (mech shuts down).. Wiser players will have overheat override on, and they might start cooking some internals, forcing them to disengage from the fight early to cool off..