Javelin

[The Commissar]

So, I've been using th JVN-10N, and it's awful. Is it just me, or does it really need a balancing pass, since they haven't touched it since it's release (to my knowledge).

[Ishan451]

I don't think it needs a balancing pass. Its not the best light mech ever, but i also bought a 10N for the event... and i ran it with dual srm2 and 4, an xl 255 engine... and its fine. Its not stellar, but its fine. The reduction in spread is nice, unfortunately its not available to MRMs.

I also could imagine it as a LRM5 boat... with dual LRM5... you could carry about 1260 ammunition and would run nearly 140kph... which means you should in theory always have a nasty angle on the enemy if you wanted to. That would be a constant LRM5 barrage throughout the match. And while i ran it as SRM boat for the event (and got my 500 damage in one match), i probably would have tried the LRM next. (Although for LRM5 boating i have other mechs).

Dual MRM10 would also be an option, though i personally would go with dual SRM6 instead.

Overall i am not thrilled by the mech, and it probably could need a little larger spread boni instead of just the 5%. That being said.. its a mediocre light mech and the 11B and 10F are the better choices if you have to have a Javelin... i wouldn't know why you would want one.

[The Commissar]

Exactly my point. There are many other mechs that do the same thing, but better. SRM spam? Jenner or the Assassin work better. Laser spam? Most lights and many of the 40 and 45 tonners do it better. I was admittedly exaggerating it's awfulness, but it's not even worth wasting a mechbay on. That's why I think that (at least the 10N) needs a look at.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

That's why I think that (at least the 10N) needs a look at.

See... i don't because pretty much half the IS light mechs play the same. Pretty much all of them you have your choice of 4 medium lasers (or small pulses) or 2-4 SRM launchers.

The commando isn't much different from a Locust... isn't much different from an Osiris... isn't much different from a Firestarter.

The Javelin performs like any other 4 medium lasers / 2 SRM4 light mechs. Not better, not worse.. and you can't really make it all to special with quirks either, because the weapon systems you can put on it are rather limited. With a total of about 10tons for weapon and equipment, there isn't to much you can do with the thing.


Realistically speaking, what quirks would you give the thing?

[The Commissar]

I'm honestly not sure. I'm by no means qualified to balance things, but since the mech is (sort of) renowned for its firepower, definitely quirks about firepower rather than survivability. I'm not sure how much of a buff to the cooldown would be appropriate, but maybe 15% or 20% instead of 5%, or maybe increase the general to 10% and have a 5-10% in a specific weapon. That'd make it pretty scary. Perhaps instead orienting it toward being an MRM boat? However, that makes the survivability problems of the mech even more pronounced, and the +5 structure quirks don't really do much for it. Granted, my experience with the Javelin is limited to part of a night, and the matches I was having were pretty much uniformly awful, regardless of mech, so that may be skewing things.

[Dracul]

Javs my jam haha, It plays about like a commando with better hitboxes and the possibility of jump jets if you forego the ECM model (which I dont, I used ECM/Stealth on mine hard). I dont think its especially good or bad however, just a different flavored ankle biter.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1410310353 Durring the event , we got stomped but my tryhard pants were on super tight.

[Zyrrashijn]

I don't mean to brag, but: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1410984707
18% mech left with 0% missiles, GQ, unskilled. Was fun!

[Nero]

Yeah a 25ton light mech isn't much different than a 35ton one... xD

[Shadow of the SPQR]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by The Commissar:

That's why I think that (at least the 10N) needs a look at.

See... i don't because pretty much half the IS light mechs play the same. Pretty much all of them you have your choice of 4 medium lasers (or small pulses) or 2-4 SRM launchers.

The commando isn't much different from a Locust... isn't much different from an Osiris... isn't much different from a Firestarter.

The Javelin performs like any other 4 medium lasers / 2 SRM4 light mechs. Not better, not worse.. and you can't really make it all to special with quirks either, because the weapon systems you can put on it are rather limited. With a total of about 10tons for weapon and equipment, there isn't to much you can do with the thing.


Realistically speaking, what quirks would you give the thing?

Are you trying to tell me a locust isn't much different from a firestarter? Wot?

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

Are you trying to tell me a locust isn't much different from a firestarter? Wot?

In terms of weapons.. no. You are likely only running 4-6 medium lasers on both. The Firestarter, depending on variant might have 2 extra MGs... but by and large they use the same weapons.

Now they play differently, due to the shape of the mech and the general speed, but its still just the same weapon systems.

[Shadow of the SPQR]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

Are you trying to tell me a locust isn't much different from a firestarter? Wot?

In terms of weapons.. no. You are likely only running 4-6 medium lasers on both. The Firestarter, depending on variant might have 2 extra MGs... but by and large they use the same weapons.

Now they play differently, due to the shape of the mech and the general speed, but its still just the same weapon systems.

Same weapons systems with a fundementally different playstyle is inherently a big difference, mate. One is able to accomplish different things than the other. That should make them pretty different by itself. Not to mention different heat and ways that the weapons themselves fire, such as for hill peeking and the like.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

Same weapons systems with a fundementally different playstyle is inherently a big difference, mate.

I disagree on the fundamentally different playstyle. Fundamentally different is the difference between an AC20 and an ER PPC build... that is fundamentally different. Running up and firing 4-6 lasers at someone is not fundamentally different, even if the mech size is a bit different.

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

One is able to accomplish different things than the other.

Like what? The fact that the Firestarter might be a bit better with a Flamer build? At the end of the day you use 4 lasers and blast it at people.

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

Not to mention different heat and ways that the weapons themselves fire, such as for hill peeking and the like.

And you still just blast people with 4 lasers. That is not fundamentally different.. these are minuscule differences in how you go about dishing out a face full of medium lasers.

[Nero]

lol he puts 4 med lasers into a 35ton mech xDDD

[Shadow of the SPQR]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

Same weapons systems with a fundementally different playstyle is inherently a big difference, mate.

I disagree on the fundamentally different playstyle. Fundamentally different is the difference between an AC20 and an ER PPC build... that is fundamentally different. Running up and firing 4-6 lasers at someone is not fundamentally different, even if the mech size is a bit different.

A good fraction less height resulting in far less size, far superior speed, a general mobility gap, hardpoints to affect peeking capacity... (which do frankly disadvantage the firestarter in my humble opinion, merely making it a 'flavor' mech, not one I'd take to do the best game performance in any circumstance)

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Like what? The fact that the Firestarter might be a bit better with a Flamer build? At the end of the day you use 4 lasers and blast it at people.

The firestarter can use 8-9.

Originally posted by Ishan451:

And you still just blast people with 4 lasers. That is not fundamentally different.. these are minuscule differences in how you go about dishing out a face full of medium lasers.

8-9, you are restricting your own diversity. That's not the mech's fault, it's yours.

Just because you build it with 4 doesn't mean other people can't build it differently. At this point, we're not even debating what the chassis can do, we're debating what you are actually doing with the chassis. It can be whatever you want. If you want to play them the same way, sure. Doesn't mean they don't have the capacity to operate differently so their strengths and weaknesses are complimented and minimized.

Locust is driven into the medium laser/one big laser field because it simply doesn't have the points to even try more, firestarter does. You seem to be missing quite a few hardpoints in your statements on the matter of the Firestarter. Also missing that the Locust is better suited to hill peak by hardpoints and the firestarter having its lasers typically scattered across its width (though that could be changed).

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

8-9, you are restricting your own diversity. That's not the mech's fault, it's yours.

Not only does that depend on the Firestarter (not all variants have more than 6 energy hardpoints), but also can't you use more than 6 without getting ghostheat... and even using just 6 will run the Mech quite hot. Running it at 8 pretty much melts your mech, even without the ghost heat.

So no, i am not limiting my diversity. I am realistic in building mechs. There is no benefit to adding 2 more Medium lasers to that mech, as you will run way to hot to make much use of those extra 2 medium lasers and you should better invest those 2 tons in extra heatsinks, as it will increase the amount of time you can stay engaged with the enemy.

[Shadow of the SPQR]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by CommodusIV:

8-9, you are restricting your own diversity. That's not the mech's fault, it's yours.

Not only does that depend on the Firestarter (not all variants have more than 6 energy hardpoints), but also can't you use more than 6 without getting ghostheat... and even using just 6 will run the Mech quite hot. Running it at 8 pretty much melts your mech, even without the ghost heat.

So no, i am not limiting my diversity. I am realistic in building mechs. There is no benefit to adding 2 more Medium lasers to that mech, as you will run way to hot to make much use of those extra 2 medium lasers and you should better invest those 2 tons in extra heatsinks, as it will increase the amount of time you can stay engaged with the enemy.

I hope you're not shoehorning yourself into exclusively medium lasers... and even if so, underestimating heat management can be a terrible thing.