How Bad Is the Cheating?

[VG_Elder]

I love MW games and it's been awhile since I've played one. Granted I will get my ass handed to me for a good while before I get back into the swing of learning how to setup and use the Mechs but if it's overwhelmed with cheaters, then all the effort feels wasted.

[Aw Shucks]

There are some cheaters who have been caught, with evidence to support the accusation of cheating. PGI themselves have, to everyone else's knowledge, done exactly nothing about them.

Cheating may or may not be widespread, we have a few confirmed cases but we really have no way to say for sure how common it is and PGI is either unwilling or unable to institute anti-cheat safeguards. As it is, it's unlikely a confirmed cheater gets punished (and they can just come right back on another alt).

I have a feeling that if PGI did institute anticheat, they'd go a completely headass route like BattlEye (you know, that anticheat that demands kernel-level access on your machine).

As it stands you're more likely to cop a ban for greeting other players in the wrong fashion than you are for cheating or griefing. (e: just checked to see if one of the griefers I ran into is still active. He is. Lmao.)

[VG_Elder]

Genghis Lepre-Khan eredeti hozzászólása:

There are some cheaters who have been caught, with evidence to support the accusation of cheating. PGI themselves have, to everyone else's knowledge, done exactly nothing about them.

Cheating may or may not be widespread, we have a few confirmed cases but we really have no way to say for sure how common it is and PGI is either unwilling or unable to institute anti-cheat safeguards. As it is, it's unlikely a confirmed cheater gets punished (and they can just come right back on another alt).

I have a feeling that if PGI did institute anticheat, they'd go a completely headass route like BattlEye (you know, that anticheat that demands kernel-level access on your machine).

I think it would be very hard to determine if someone is cheating or not give the nature of Mechwarrior games. There are so many factors involved that when you build your mechs. It's not like some FPS where you empty a clip into them, they just keep on running, and you know they are doing something fishy. You can pound a mech for sometime before taking them done.

[Aw Shucks]

VG_Elder eredeti hozzászólása:

I think it would be very hard to determine if someone is cheating or not give the nature of Mechwarrior games. There are so many factors involved that when you build your mechs. It's not like some FPS where you empty a clip into them, they just keep on running, and you know they are doing something fishy. You can pound a mech for sometime before taking them done.

It's easier than you'd think at times. The catch is that it's easiest if you're spectating the player in question of being a cheater - so 1. you have to be in the game but dead, 2. they have to be on your team and 3. you have to have OBS or something up and running so you can record them being a dirty bird, because otherwise it won't matter (PGI either cannot or will not keep playbacks of matches server side for investigation)

It's funny because when PGI effectively deputizes players as hackerbusters they also give them practically no tools to do so. There is no way to spectate a match you're not a part of from inside the game client (and one of the arguments I've seen against allowing this is... wait for it... it would enable metagaming cheating by people feeding information through other clients to players in match, something which can already happen, because Twitch and Discord and Vent/Teamspeak/Mumble are already in widespread use.)

[Rinzler]

its so sad to see Dev not protecting fan players investments by banning more cheaters. THey are only hurting their own pockets. I would spend more money on the game if I saw real evidence of them banning cheating players

[🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃]

Rinzler eredeti hozzászólása:

its so sad to see Dev not protecting fan players investments by banning more cheaters. THey are only hurting their own pockets. I would spend more money on the game if I saw real evidence of them banning cheating players

Cheatings an "unsolvable problem" when you use a matchmaking system, and devs using matchmaking is because players are to lazy to do 3 clicks instead of 2.

[Aw Shucks]

🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃 eredeti hozzászólása:

Rinzler eredeti hozzászólása:

its so sad to see Dev not protecting fan players investments by banning more cheaters. THey are only hurting their own pockets. I would spend more money on the game if I saw real evidence of them banning cheating players

Cheatings an "unsolvable problem" when you use a matchmaking system, and devs using matchmaking is because players are to lazy to do 3 clicks instead of 2.

It's a Red Queen race to some extent but given how much of a threat the question of "Was my opponent cheating or otherwise gaming the system" poses to any remotely competitive game there are bound to be solutions. I don't think matchmaking obviates this, what does obviate it is a complete lack of care from PGI on the matter as it necessarily requires some degree of coordination with the people who actually RUN THE GAME. PGI's GMs are pretty much only ever concerned with catching messages typed in chat (and unit names apparently). They don't even pay mind to VOIP harassment, and for griefing they tend to rely on the automated Team Damage/Team Kill penalty and nothing else.

[Bassault]

I haven't experienced anything egregious but I've seen videos online of some people getting caught.

[Ishan451]

VG_Elder eredeti hozzászólása:

How Bad Is the Cheating?

In 7 years, i have had about 2 instances where i was certain another player was cheating.

Other than that, there are some frequent hackusations here and there. Mostly, however, if you drill down on them, they seem to stem from a lack of understanding of the game and its mechanics, selective reading of claims on other forums because personality xyz was or wasn't banned and of course, a general dislike for the Developer (who certainly has given the community at lot of good reason to be scornful).

Skillabilities like Seismic Scanner, can make it seem like someone is running a cheat program, when in reality they were just standing still and got the readout of the Seismic scanner and thus were appraised of the movement. Similarly, people using Stealth armor, allowing them to be "invisible"... aka overlooked by others... and many of the "lagswitches" are just people from Australia getting put into matches on the European server, with an atrocious ping.

Some detractors also have their favorite <insert 'famous' MWO player here> was cheating and PGI (Developer) did nothing story, which gets bandied about every so often, speaking with authority on how PGI knew XYZ but didn't act, because <insert pet theory here>. That is of course, unless (sometimes the same) people are upset that PGI did ban <insert other 'famous' MWO player> for their poor conduct.

I never found them very convincing, but people that want to make the argument that it is full of cheaters all have their own pet story about it. So your mileage may vary.

Statistically, if we take the numbers of cheaters from other games, to derive an percentage of any given playerbases likelihood to cheat, then there should be about 1 to 2 people cheating at any give time of the day in MWO. The chance of those people ending up in your game, and on your enemies team is rather low... or low enough not to need to worry about it.

But of course, reading the Steam forums, can at times give the impression that there are entire throves of Cheaters out there.... like entire games infested with them, with the dev manically cackling at the fact, as they force their player base to "endure" the rampant problem... As i said.. that hasn't been my experience and i never found the evidence presented, when you take the time to drill down on it, to be convincing. YMMV.

[salamatmahal]

I've never personally witnessed/noticed cheating when spectating.

I've been accused of cheating at least a few times by enemies. Humorously at times, such as in this video where an arctic cheetah accuses me of cheating because I could see him when he 'hid' behind a twig of a pole I guess? Or maybe because game feedback of enemy ECM nearby gave him away? Or maybe it was MGs in my back that gave him away? Not really sure...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4nFAtdzP1w&ab_channel=RandomMechwarrior

Lots of people assumed I use macros (never used any in MWO) for RACs or LBX2s. For RACs, I tend to have offset weapons groups so I can get my bullets out-of-sync with eachother to give more cockpit splatter to the target. For LBX2s, I tend to have a group fire and a chainfire button and on occasion I will spam the chainfire and then hold down the groupfire button to give more cockpit splatter to the target.

I've seen ~20 videos that claimed to show people cheating and I was not able to see anything in the videos that indicated cheating to me. (Some of these were clearly NOT cheating IMO and may have been generated by someone with a beef with some particular players trying to stir things up.)

I've seen ~3 videos of people cheating that were all banned.

Of the videos that I saw that showed people cheating, one seemed to break the rules of the game somehow and allowed the guy to shoot places he shouldn't have been able to shoot. And a couple were of clear aimbotting. The aimbotting didn't seem to be super effective. The aimbotting video was a complete game capture and the cheater's performance was not impressive.

[JC]

Short answer, its not pervasive, give the game a try, there is a step learning curve but many folks will help out with any questions you have. Keep in mind, many stock builds suck and the game does not play like other battletech games. This one is about making mechs that typically are in one range, aka short, med or long and you boat up weapons that work for those distances. There are not many Multi range builds outside of people adding Medium or small lasers to a mech that has long range weapons. Typically they boat up stuff in a single range. It's more of an Alpha, twist, alpha play style with some exceptions.






OP, i wouldn't worry about it. It's a slow paced game. good players can land shots where they want so outside of someone that uses some sorta aimbot for headshots which honestly i have not seen. it's really hard to tell if they are just good shots.

I've played 1k's of matches and i've never had one that i thought man that guy was cheating and that is why i lost. It's more likely i screwed up and got wrecked. The game is far more about you being in a good position, knowing how to play your mech, making good trades meaning how much armor you loose verse the enemy on any given shot. All that stuff maters far more than aiming, because of the slower nature of the game. Sure PPC's and gauss at long range take more skill, but often games are played in the mid range and most folks are good enough to land shots at that point. Also many weapons spread damage anyway, Missiles and Ballistic boats can all spread a decent amount so they aren't landing on one section anyway. Also knowing how to torso twist to make the damage spread more is another skill you need to learn.

Basically the way the game works, hacks just don't over come enough that a good player can't do already. There might be a random wall hack guy or something but more often than not it's just a player that knows what they are doing verse someone that doesn't.


On a funny side note,

I've been accused of a wall hack because i used seismic sensor and the Sensor lock that lets you follow a mech for a few seconds but those are just in game tools everyone has. The other time was i had some sorta anti seismic hack because i waited for the guy to move before i rushed into kill him from behind. (if the person is moving their seismic doesn't work) He didn't realize he was moving a little but it was enough for me to closed in. It's made me laugh a few times because i thought, i'm certainly not a top player but boy i must have had a great match if i'm getting accused of hacking lol

[Aw Shucks]

JC eredeti hozzászólása:

Short answer, its not pervasive, give the game a try, there is a step learning curve but many folks will help out with any questions you have. Keep in mind, many stock builds suck and the game does not play like other battletech games. This one is about making mechs that typically are in one range, aka short, med or long and you boat up weapons that work for those distances. There are not many Multi range builds outside of people adding Medium or small lasers to a mech that has long range weapons. Typically they boat up stuff in a single range. It's more of an Alpha, twist, alpha play style with some exceptions.






OP, i wouldn't worry about it. It's a slow paced game. good players can land shots where they want so outside of someone that uses some sorta aimbot for headshots which honestly i have not seen. it's really hard to tell if they are just good shots.

I've played 1k's of matches and i've never had one that i thought man that guy was cheating and that is why i lost. It's more likely i screwed up and got wrecked. The game is far more about you being in a good position, knowing how to play your mech, making good trades meaning how much armor you loose verse the enemy on any given shot. All that stuff maters far more than aiming, because of the slower nature of the game. Sure PPC's and gauss at long range take more skill, but often games are played in the mid range and most folks are good enough to land shots at that point. Also many weapons spread damage anyway, Missiles and Ballistic boats can all spread a decent amount so they aren't landing on one section anyway. Also knowing how to torso twist to make the damage spread more is another skill you need to learn.

Basically the way the game works, hacks just don't over come enough that a good player can't do already. There might be a random wall hack guy or something but more often than not it's just a player that knows what they are doing verse someone that doesn't.


On a funny side note,

I've been accused of a wall hack because i used seismic sensor and the Sensor lock that lets you follow a mech for a few seconds but those are just in game tools everyone has. The other time was i had some sorta anti seismic hack because i waited for the guy to move before i rushed into kill him from behind. (if the person is moving their seismic doesn't work) He didn't realize he was moving a little but it was enough for me to closed in. It's made me laugh a few times because i thought, i'm certainly not a top player but boy i must have had a great match if i'm getting accused of hacking lol

It's not simply about granting a player a leg up they don't deserve, if it were simply about that we'd have to take a good hard ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ look at scoring, groups and MM. Cheating in a multiplayer game is a big wad of spit in the eyes of every other player who is following that rule of "don't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheat". It is the most profoundly disrespectful thing I can think of in this environment.

[Cyzxxikz]

Genghis Lepre-Khan eredeti hozzászólása:

It's not simply about granting a player a leg up they don't deserve, if it were simply about that we'd have to take a good hard ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ look at scoring, groups and MM. Cheating in a multiplayer game is a big wad of spit in the eyes of every other player who is following that rule of "don't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheat". It is the most profoundly disrespectful thing I can think of in this environment.

easy there tiger, he's not saying cheatings not a bad thing to do, hes saying typical cheats like other games aren't so useful here.
take just about any normal shooter and give someone wallhack and aimbot and they'll dominate, give someone the same stuff here and a good player will still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stomp them typically.
this isn't an arguement that cheating is okay to do because the cheater will still suck, its saying that even if people are cheating its not going to effect you enough to ruin your game

i could see a wallhack being helpful, but its a slow paced game with plenty of ways to find the other team. aimbot on the other hand i've seen a few old videos with aimbotting going on, and it looked 100% detrimental to the person using it imo, maybe it would help vs lights while using lasers, but mostly it just seemed to keep the player from hitting the components they should've

[JC]

Cyzxxikz eredeti hozzászólása:

[quote=Genghis Lepre-
easy there tiger, he's not saying cheatings not a bad thing to do, hes saying typical cheats like other games aren't so useful here.
take just about any normal shooter and give someone wallhack and aimbot and they'll dominate, give someone the same stuff here and a good player will still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stomp them typically.
this isn't an arguement that cheating is okay to do because the cheater will still suck, its saying that even if people are cheating its not going to effect you enough to ruin your game

i could see a wallhack being helpful, but its a slow paced game with plenty of ways to find the other team. aimbot on the other hand i've seen a few old videos with aimbotting going on, and it looked 100% detrimental to the person using it imo, maybe it would help vs lights while using lasers, but mostly it just seemed to keep the player from hitting the components they should've

This is exactly what i'm saying. The simple fact they really don't help enough makes most folks not bother so the number of people doing it are pretty low when compared to many other games.

[talemore]

They surely know where I put the ammo every single time that sometimes I just add gauss ammo to support the structure and they'll shoot at it as if it's waiting for something to happen.

[Aw Shucks]

talemore eredeti hozzászólása:

They surely know where I put the ammo every single time that sometimes I just add gauss ammo to support the structure and they'll shoot at it as if it's waiting for something to happen.

Sure thing chief, let me know how equipping ammo for a weapon you're not even fielding works out for you
"support the structure"
What does this even mean, it's not like Gauss ammo is going to absorb damage that would be directed to structure, the structure takes damage and a crit chance gets rolled to see if it takes anything in there with it

Now I'm imagining a mech with Gauss slugs haphazardly fastened onto the chassis like some bizarre chainmail