ATM's range nerf?

[WhenDiplomacyFails]

Did pgi nerf ATM's maximum optimal range at some point in last 1-2 years ago? I was checking my ATM current range and noticed that maximum optimal stands on 245 which is weird because I remember it suppose to be 270. I'm not tripping am I?

[Zyrrashijn]

You're correct. It was nerfed.

[WhenDiplomacyFails]

Originally posted by Zyrrashijn:

You're correct. It was nerfed.

Can you tell me what was their reasoning behind this balance change?

[Zyrrashijn]

If I remember correctly, it was that ATMs were (and still are) stupidly strong on poptarts.

[cyäegha]

hell, you don't even need to pair them with JJs for them to objectively be the strongest missile system on any clam chassis that can boat at least 27 tubes and five tons of ammunition
it's pure coincidence that a lot of the viable contenders also happen to have fixed JJs, and speaks more to the chassis in question being broken - i mean, the VGL is stupidly busted no matter which metashit build you slap onto it

but realistically there is almost no scenario in which you would ever be better off using C-LRMs than ATMs; if you really want to lurm, IS LRM is by and away the better version of the weapon system

[WhenDiplomacyFails]

but realistically there is almost no scenario in which you would ever be better off using C-LRMs than ATMs; if you really want to lurm, IS LRM is by and away the better version of the weapon system

Wtf are you talking about? Are you serious or you came after bad match against atm?

[Friends with Benedicts]

Originally posted by WhenDiplomacyFails:

but realistically there is almost no scenario in which you would ever be better off using C-LRMs than ATMs; if you really want to lurm, IS LRM is by and away the better version of the weapon system

Wtf are you talking about? Are you serious or you came after bad match against atm?

Can you elaborate as to why LRMs are objectively better on clan mechs rather than using ATM. I know ATM wiil have damage falloff specially when dealing with ranges close of those of LRM, and I also know ATMs damage scales from 0 to 100% at the first meters, but I still want to understand more about it. Been playing with Mad Dog and been changing from LRM to ATM to SRM trying to figure out the best and more versatile combo.

[Scar Glamour]

Originally posted by Friends with Benedicts:

Can you elaborate as to why LRMs are objectively better on clan mechs rather than using ATM. I know ATM wiil have damage falloff specially when dealing with ranges close of those of LRM, and I also know ATMs damage scales from 0 to 100% at the first meters, but I still want to understand more about it. Been playing with Mad Dog and been changing from LRM to ATM to SRM trying to figure out the best and more versatile combo.

If you play around at LRM ranges (400-800m) ATMs do less damage, generate more heat, and have less ammo than c-LRM. Not to mention that they are incapable of indirect fire.

ATM really shine at brawling range either as a poptart weapon, since you don't really need LOS if you have a lock. You can jump just high enough and pitch your tubes for the missiles to clear the obstacle. But the best use by far is dealing with lights when they try to circle your assault.

[WhenDiplomacyFails]

Can you elaborate as to why LRMs are objectively better on clan mechs rather than using ATM. I know ATM wiil have damage falloff specially when dealing with ranges close of those of LRM, and I also know ATMs damage scales from 0 to 100% at the first meters, but I still want to understand more about it. Been playing with Mad Dog and been changing from LRM to ATM to SRM trying to figure out the best and more versatile combo.

Think of ATM as quality over quantity, it does much more damage between 120-245 (125-270 previously )+30m from skills(optional) and it has lower spread compared to LRM(ATM has bult in Artemis). *BUT*
it comes at price of :
- 1. less missiles per Salvo
- 2. lower projectile velocity(compared to direct fire lrm)
- 3.Generates more heat(Lrm has the luxury of chain fire which means controllable heat generation , atm usually does not have the luxury of chain fire as result of exposing itself at short distances to fire. result is heat jumps at bursts especially with lasers)
- 4. less ammo per ton.

What do those cons actually mean?
1. Since ATM launchers launch less missiles per salvo it means that AMS are much more potent against them, *I assume* that at least two missiles being destroyed by one AMS which means ATM 6 is actually 4 and ATM 3 is actually 1 ! Between range 120-245 its an acceptable outcome(except atm 3) because each missile does triple damage compared to LRM. But as the missiles travel longer distances they expose themselves to more AMS(from other mechs) which cuts the amount of missiles which do reach the target. Even if at 400 meter atm 6 does 12 damage it does not mean that those 6 would reach the target so instead looking at 12 damage its likely going to be 6-8 damage.
2. Well this one could be part of answer to question number 1 because it has to do with enemy AMS but the reason I've decided to split it is to show that LRM direct line of sight has more velocity than ATM!
3. If you playing JJ PopTard such as Huntsman or Vapor Eagle, you likely going to expose yourself at ranges of 120-245. within this time you'll likely recieve retaliation from enemy frontliners(due to closer range its easier to hit) so its important to deliver as much damage as possible and that means other weapons along ATM. ATM usually are heavy and most of pop tards are mediums which means your secondary weaponry likely going to lasers and not ballistics and lasers are energy which means even more heat. Chain fire with ATM's is not really an option most of the time(from my experience).
4. Less ammo per ton means if poptard shoots outside of 120-245m its likely not worth the tonnage(look at answer number 1).

Since I did not play for some time I do not know what are the current Health per missile for ATM and LRM but that is also something that needs to be calculated along travel time and number of missiles per salvo vs AMS.

My point "Quality" is not often better than "Quantity". LRM has its place in game and comparing it to ATM just because ATM can be shot at the same ranges is wrong comparison.

[NamelessOne]

Clan lrms fire as a stream instead of a volley, it make them easier to shoot down with AMS and easier to dodge part of the stream, especially for faster moving mechs that can duck behind cover and break lock before they all impact. I don't usually lrm at all, but if I did I would start with IS lrms.

ATM is more vulnerable to ams than lrms, but the flexibility they have and the 3 damage per missile they do at optimal short range is the appeal.

I personally like AMS as lrm boats can be a drain on a quick play team that can't properly support them with locks or follow up the sandblasting damage with finishing blows. Far too many matches end up with a useless lrm boat being the last survivor because they just didn't pull their weight (due to no locks or throwing missiles into terrain) and contributed nothing for the sharing of armor like a midrange atm mech can.