Targeting through stealth armor?

[Shotgun]

We were winning the match, and there were only 2-3 enemies left. I was away from the main group, gauss-sniping. Suddenly, a streak boat light was running directly for me. There were no other enemies nearby, no UAVs in the air, and the streak boat didn't have a TAG. I turned on stealth armor just as it began attacking me, yet it still kept going. In fact, it kept attacking me until it overheat and shut down, and was taken out by my teammates.

Am I missing something? Can anyone help me wrap my mind around this?

[JC]

well i read that thread, and another thread and still could not see anwhere that had exact numbers or specific info on the time. .


all i know is on a few mechs i have all the Targeting decay nodes.. and i have watched mechs pop off my radar despite me still being able to see them and chasing them, basically a rolling hill that i even would use JJ's to keep um in LOS.. (i'm guessing it is a hitbox thing) But still, if people have all the radar dep nodes you drop basically instantly, even if i have the decay nodes.


It has been a while sense i bothered with LRM's or even streaks, so who knows what has changes since ST launched and if there might of been an early bug causing the issue..

[Shotgun]

引用自 Ishan451：

引用自 Shotgun：

If that's the case, then stealth armor not instantly breaking any sort of targeting, despite of target decay, when there is no line of sight, doesn't seem like intentional behavior to me, since ECM breaks targeting instantly when the target goes out of LoS to all enemies

No it doesnt. Ecm is no instant target loss, it's suspect to the same target decay, which is why you might want to pick the skills to increase your decay.

While I do agree that it's possible that this is what happened (the guy had +3.5 seconds and my time behind the pillar wasn't enough to break the lock), I have to say that the odds of someone investing so many points in that skill tree should be astronomically rare (literally the first time I've noticed it happen in such an obvious way). For an LRM boat, sure, 100% worthwhile investment, but streaks don't arc up, so regardless of how long you can keep a target locked, you won't hit it because they'll smash into the object separating you two.

Overall, this whole situation seems absurd. Being able to maintain a lock on a target after it turns on stealth, and being able to maintain that lock on the target after it moves behind cover while still stealthed is nonsensical. This seems like an unintentional oversight in terms of state transfers in this game. Remember that the core principle is target sharing, which means that if that one enemy can target me due to all of these factors, all enemies can (unless I have active ECM preventing the transfer of active target information). This effectively means that under certain circumstances, an entire team can target a completely invisible enemy.

[JC]

You keep it on streakboats so you don't have to relock, it's not so much about the travel time.


Some folks actually use it on other mechs if they are going deep into sensor tree for what ever reason. If your spending 12 points already, a few more isn't that big of a deal you are already making a sacrifice else where.


Light hunters/flankers are most common to take it, sometimes long range snipers

[Ishan451]

引用自 Shotgun：

While I do agree that it's possible that this is what happened (the guy had +3.5 seconds and my time behind the pillar wasn't enough to break the lock), I have to say that the odds of someone investing so many points in that skill tree should be astronomically rare (literally the first time I've noticed it happen in such an obvious way). For an LRM boat, sure, 100% worthwhile investment, but streaks don't arc up, so regardless of how long you can keep a target locked, you won't hit it because they'll smash into the object separating you two.

You are talking to someone that always invests that much when he plans the mech to use lock ons, so I am not sure how rare it actually is.

That being said... It's also possible they didn't loose the lock for whatever reason, such as someone at long range having los or screwy low detection through the geometry.

[Proteus]

引用自 Ishan451：

引用自 Shotgun：

While I do agree that it's possible that this is what happened (the guy had +3.5 seconds and my time behind the pillar wasn't enough to break the lock), I have to say that the odds of someone investing so many points in that skill tree should be astronomically rare (literally the first time I've noticed it happen in such an obvious way). For an LRM boat, sure, 100% worthwhile investment, but streaks don't arc up, so regardless of how long you can keep a target locked, you won't hit it because they'll smash into the object separating you two.

You are talking to someone that always invests that much when he plans the mech to use lock ons, so I am not sure how rare it actually is.

That being said... It's also possible they didn't loose the lock for whatever reason, such as someone at long range having los or screwy low detection through the geometry.

Or perhaps he thinks of his Mech as a light mech hunter (the number of Streaks on hi9s mech seems to suggests so) and therefore actually expects targets to which he repeatedly loses contact (due to the agility of light mechs)

[Shotgun]

Necroing this thread.

This ♥♥♥♥ just happened to me again. I came up behind an ASN-21 in my stealthed Commando. We were both away from the main battle, so no one else was painting me or anything. The ASN-21 had 4x Streak 4s, and nothing else. It can't fit an ECM, it had no TAG, no NARC, no anything. Maybe it had a BAP, but that shouldn't have affected things.

The guys turns around, and starts shooting me with his streaks. I start to get the hell away from there, putting whatever I could in his line of sight. But after humping a pillar or turning a corner, the guy could still continue to shoot me every time I was back in visual range.

How? With the Radar Dep. nodes and the stealth armor, I should immediately disappear from an enemy's UI upon breaking LoS. This guy could shoot me even after I got out of his sight for almost ten seconds. And that's beside the fact that he shouldn't have been able to lock me to begin with. So how?

[BWS2K]

I haven't played in almost a year so my knowledge is out of date but Seismic might have picked you up, or he might have just heard you. Standing still allows you to hear a lot going on. That doesn't so much explain the locking on aspect, but it's very possible to identify stealthed units in a lot of non-conventional ways. Like I said though, I'm a bit rusty.

[Shotgun]

引用自 BWS2K：

I haven't played in almost a year so my knowledge is out of date but Seismic might have picked you up, or he might have just heard you. Standing still allows you to hear a lot going on. That doesn't so much explain the locking on aspect, but it's very possible to identify stealthed units in a lot of non-conventional ways. Like I said though, I'm a bit rusty.

The issue is that he was able to target me, and continue to target me despite the fact that I broke all locks, through stealth armor. I'm not that concerned that he spotted me to begin with, he might have seen me before and knew that I was coming.

[Ishan451]

引用自 Shotgun：

This ♥♥♥♥ just happened to me again. I came up behind an ASN-21 in my stealthed Commando. We were both away from the main battle, so no one else was painting me or anything. The ASN-21 had 4x Streak 4s, and nothing else. It can't fit an ECM, it had no TAG, no NARC, no anything. Maybe it had a BAP, but that shouldn't have affected things.

ASN-21[mwo.smurfy-net.de]
That would be a build with BAP.

引用自 Shotgun：

The guys turns around, and starts shooting me with his streaks. I start to get the hell away from there, putting whatever I could in his line of sight. But after humping a pillar or turning a corner, the guy could still continue to shoot me every time I was back in visual range.

How? With the Radar Dep. nodes and the stealth armor, I should immediately disappear from an enemy's UI upon breaking LoS. This guy could shoot me even after I got out of his sight for almost ten seconds. And that's beside the fact that he shouldn't have been able to lock me to begin with. So how?

Would be useful to know your own UI, did you get information that your ECM was broken?

Could it have been a UAV, as UAV's counter ECM?

What game mode was it? Was it Invasion? Because the radar thingy pulse can override ECM protection. Just like the ECM jamming tower overrides BAP and the like (its why i hate playing Missile Boats on Invasion, since the enemy can shut you down to the point where even Tag isn't really enough to get a lock)

[Shotgun]

引用自 Ishan451：

Would be useful to know your own UI, did you get information that your ECM was broken?

Didn't have time to check the right side of the screen, was too busy evading.

引用自 Ishan451：

Could it have been a UAV, as UAV's counter ECM?

Doubtful, as he chased me for a while, so we were definitely out of UAV range even if there was one initially.

引用自 Ishan451：

What game mode was it? Was it Invasion? Because the radar thingy pulse can override ECM protection. Just like the ECM jamming tower overrides BAP and the like (its why i hate playing Missile Boats on Invasion, since the enemy can shut you down to the point where even Tag isn't really enough to get a lock)

No, just a normal QP match.

But none of those things are able to go through stealth armor, according to PGI's own patch notes. Only TAG and NARC (and PPC hits) should be able todo that. And experimenting with TAG myself, it rarely seems to go through enemy stealth armor on my end.

[Maddermax]

引用自 Ishan451：

引用自 Shotgun：

This ♥♥♥♥ just happened to me again. I came up behind an ASN-21 in my stealthed Commando. We were both away from the main battle, so no one else was painting me or anything. The ASN-21 had 4x Streak 4s, and nothing else. It can't fit an ECM, it had no TAG, no NARC, no anything. Maybe it had a BAP, but that shouldn't have affected things.

ASN-21[mwo.smurfy-net.de]
That would be a build with BAP.

引用自 Shotgun：

The guys turns around, and starts shooting me with his streaks. I start to get the hell away from there, putting whatever I could in his line of sight. But after humping a pillar or turning a corner, the guy could still continue to shoot me every time I was back in visual range.

How? With the Radar Dep. nodes and the stealth armor, I should immediately disappear from an enemy's UI upon breaking LoS. This guy could shoot me even after I got out of his sight for almost ten seconds. And that's beside the fact that he shouldn't have been able to lock me to begin with. So how?

Would be useful to know your own UI, did you get information that your ECM was broken?

Could it have been a UAV, as UAV's counter ECM?

What game mode was it? Was it Invasion? Because the radar thingy pulse can override ECM protection. Just like the ECM jamming tower overrides BAP and the like (its why i hate playing Missile Boats on Invasion, since the enemy can shut you down to the point where even Tag isn't really enough to get a lock)

None of those things should break stealth though, only ECM, as stealth should only be broken by Tag, Narc and PPC fire IIRC.

[Captain Worthy]

Ishan meant the Incursion match type, not the Invasion FP mode.

Are you sure that you didn't accidentally double tap your stealth armor button? Also, if the ASN had launched an UAV before you switched on the armor, you would have started it with broken ECM and this might have caused it to be in the broken state as well. I'll do some experimentation later today in private matches.

[Shotgun]

引用自 Mithrandir：

Are you sure that you didn't accidentally double tap your stealth armor button? Also, if the ASN had launched an UAV before you switched on the armor, you would have started it with broken ECM and this might have caused it to be in the broken state as well. I'll do some experimentation later today in private matches.

Even if there was a UAV (which shouldn't affect stealth itself), I ran for quite a while, so at some point I was definitely out of UAV range. The guy could shoot me whenever he had line of sight.

See, this wouldn't even be that weird if not for the fact that he could lock me over and over again despite the fact that I broke line of sight for long periods, all while I was in stealth mode.

If you test stuff, test what happens when a stealthed target on which you have a lock (that you get before they get stealthed) breaks line of sight. Does the lock break instantly? If not, then target decay nodes could have helped him further. Because the only thing I can think of is that maybe he had every single target decay node and a BAP, and I didn't break line of sight long enough for him to lose the lock while being within BAP range the entire time, so my ECM couldn't break it instantly.

[angrytrex]

i seem to run into the opposit problem and lose the ability to target anything, even if it doesn't have stealth armor.

The other day something seems to have shut down my streak mech's targeting completely on every mech in the area. At first I thought the Timberwolf I was shooting at powered off, but at one point I was surrounded by 3 70ish tonners and could not target any of them even right next to them, yet they were all moving around just fine and powered on

[tutzdes]

引用自 angrytrex：

i seem to run into the opposit problem and lose the ability to target anything, even if it doesn't have stealth armor.

The other day something seems to have shut down my streak mech's targeting completely on every mech in the area. At first I thought the Timberwolf I was shooting at powered off, but at one point I was surrounded by 3 70ish tonners and could not target any of them even right next to them, yet they were all moving around just fine and powered on

Incursion + Jamming tower active on the enemy half does exactly that. Escort mode beacons do that. 2 enemy ECM mechs nearby will shut down locking even with BAP/counter-ECM